Labour increase benefits bill. AIBU To think what’s the point in working?

[topicalaffair]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15520831/Labours-push-lift-two-child-benefits-cap-hand-25-000-windfalls-thousands-Britains-biggest-jobless-families.html#

‘Official estimates suggest the cost of scrapping the cap will total £13.6 billion over the next five years.

The Tories said families currently affected by the cap are in line to receive windfalls worth an average £25,000 each over that period.

But the biggest families will gain far more. Thousands of families with five children will receive around £10,900 a year while those with six children will get an extra £16,600 a year.
Almost half of the families involved have no one in work.‘

@topicalaffair, I have a lot of sympathy for your exasperation, especially as I just paid a huge tax bill a fortnight ago...

I feel like I get almost nothing in return. The NHS is a mess, the roads are a joke, the waterways are full of you know what, schools are underfunded and everything is just a bit shabby. The UK is really sinking, there's a real third world vibe, a quarter of a century behind continental equivalents, easily.

The problem is not child benefit though, and I say that as someone who missed out despite our total family income being lower than our friends' who did continue to receive it for many years because of the ridiculous way the threshold was set.

The problem is that everything, across the board, is mismanaged in this country. There is no vision, no strategy, no competence really. This is a country of petty grievances and pointless power struggles. So much middle management and endless bloody meetings, where people say the same thing over and over. The country is poor and miserable because it is badly run.

Is that a proposal?

I think you have shown us who you are already. Have lots of fun benefit bashing. I hope it makes you happy.

You still haven't told us how the benefits cap can be "worked around" or how you're qualified to distinguish between genuine and sham claimants.

The pp said ‘disability benefits are being halved from April’ - which is not true

No it isn't. It is yet another bonkers story made up by the rw press. A bit like all the shite they predicted for the budget that never came to pass.

Sadly some people believe all the trash they read in the Mail etc.

Does that include rent though? If you earn 25k you still have to pay rent out of it

Yanbu.

It's not just about childcare is it, I know people with teenagers who work part time and claim universal credit because its easier than working full time. The system is wrong, where's the incentive to be self sufficient?

No, it isn't accurate to say that, which is why I clarified it.

I also paid a huge tax bill a week ago, I wouldn’t mind if I knew it was going to ‘the greater good’. But it is not.

And I agree with the rest of your post. The removal of the 2 child cap is a front line visibly wrong decision, it doesn’t do what Labour are saying it will. Much like the taxing education disaster. These are 2 examples of Labour trying to look like they’re doing something useful. There are bigger wider, deeper problems, that aren’t being addressed, of course.

The voting usually does v comments.

Have you ever applied for disability benefits?

The irony of this is that Reeves is using the complete opposite argument for fleecing graduates with their student loans, an issue that Martyn Lewis has called her out for.

Why should non graduates pay for graduates, is her pathetic stance?
Well, what you're seeing more and more of is why should those working and limited their families to what they could afford pay for those who can't be arsed and just have 6 kids instead? It's a nice idea that children who grow up in such families then go on to break the mould and become productive themselves (which is one of the reasons for abolishing the cap) but all the evidence shows that they just replicate what they know. This is a wrong move by Labour. As usual, they don't unpick the real problem, they just throw money at a solution, which then makes the problem magnitudes worse.

Who is she then?

But if you have a lot of kids you probably are better off not working

I would imagine there’s a link between number of children being diagnosed with asd, adhd and the benefit cap.

I am predicting the £70,000 a year crap will make an appearance on this thread...

You are right OP, people are waking up to the facts as evidenced by the poll.

Those who back their decision by using "show empathy" I have plenty thanks but only show it for the deserving.

OP take comfort that the end is in sight for those milking the system - won't be sustainable and a new government. They might regret their easy choices when they have to fund the roof over their head and their food. Short sharp reality check incoming.

You can still claim unemployment benefits if you work less than 16 hours a week, or earn less than £195 a week or something like that. Still means that 2 parents can put in 15 hours each and bring in just over £20K and still claim benefits.

This is the list of things that exempt you from the benefit cap:

• get Universal Credit because of a disability or health condition that stops you from working (this is called ‘limited capability for work and work-related activity’)
• get Universal Credit because you care for someone with a disability
• get Universal Credit and you and your partner earn £846 or more a month combined, after tax and National Insurance contributions

You’re also not affected by the cap if you, your partner or any children under 18 living with you gets:

• Adult Disability Payment (ADP)
• Armed Forces Compensation Scheme
• Armed Forces Independence Payment
• Attendance Allowance
• Carer’s Allowance
• Carer Support Payment
• Child Disability Payment
• Disability Living Allowance (DLA)
• Employment and Support Allowance (if you get the support component)
• Guardian’s Allowance
• Industrial Injuries Benefits (and equivalent payments as part of a War Disablement Pension or the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme)
• Pension Age Disability Payment
• Personal Independence Payment (PIP)
• Scottish Adult Disability Living Allowance (SADLA)
• War pensions
• War Widow’s or War Widower’s Pension

According to Child Poverty Action Aid, 44% of children living in poverty live with someone who is disabled. Also, the number os people categorised as LCWRA is around 37% (according to Universal Credit Health Data). I think it's a pretty safe assumption that the benefits cap doesn't apply to a large number of claimants.

I am somewhat conflicted. I believe that people with genuine disabilities don't actually receive enough support from the state. However, I also believe that some people should not be in the system - we are a first world country with advanced medicine, and an increased awareness in mental health conditions so how can it be that 25 % of the UK population are living with a disability? (this stat is taken from the government paper on UK disability statistics in the House of Commons Library). If we really do have a population where a quarter of people are disabled then surely we need to focus more on ways to ensure that those with disabilities are able to work? I get it that some people are genuinely incapable, but it can't be 25 percent of the population?

To get back to the OPs original question, I think people get annoyed by all this is that something does smell a bit "off" as the numbers don't make sense....

No. Or council tax, or school meals.
Subsidised tickets, Subsidised gym membership, subsidised dental, subsidised this, Subsidised that..
Certain benefits are a gateway to a lot of others things

I don't think it's "benefits bashing" to point out that the current system is unsustainable, and I say that as someone who claims DLA for a disabled child. The entire system is a mess and neither the previous Tory government nor the current Labour clowns seem to have the appetite or ability to fix it.

We don't need DLA for DS because both DH and I earn well, but after battling the LA and NHS for (literally) years for basic help for DS, and spending 30k of my (net) salary on private help whilst paying tax at rates of up to 62%, I had a rather "dog in a manger" attitude and claimed every benefit I could. Had the healthcare and schooling been less shit, and a bit more willingly given, I would probably have felt more magnanimous about leaving more in the pot for others.

Equally, a post on here recently about graduate salaries got me thinking. The salaries being chased by graduates are basically the same as those that were being offered when I graduated 25 years ago. (Not adjusted for inflation - literally the same numbers). I received a grant and got my fees paid, and was able to get a mortgage for a 2-bed house on that salary. Now, not so much. So why bother? Part of the problem is the stratospheric increase in the MW. I manage people who are unwilling to take on additional responsibilities for only flumpence ha'penny over NMW when they'd rather piss off home at 5pm, and who can blame them?

Ok I knew about some of that stuff but not all of it. Never been given uc

@hairbearbunches It’s far too easy to rely on benefits and not work. Lots of hard working young people saving for a house are sick of it. They are now paying more graduate tax and it’s going to the benefits others claim by doing nothing. The young need to wake up to this. We need benefits reform and we need to support younger workers.

Another one who thinks that they have the expertise to identify "the deserving".

It wasn’t a policy wanted by the majority. It was a sop to the left of the party by the leader. The polling on here is about right.