Labour increase benefits bill. AIBU To think what’s the point in working?

[topicalaffair]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15520831/Labours-push-lift-two-child-benefits-cap-hand-25-000-windfalls-thousands-Britains-biggest-jobless-families.html#

‘Official estimates suggest the cost of scrapping the cap will total £13.6 billion over the next five years.

The Tories said families currently affected by the cap are in line to receive windfalls worth an average £25,000 each over that period.

But the biggest families will gain far more. Thousands of families with five children will receive around £10,900 a year while those with six children will get an extra £16,600 a year.
Almost half of the families involved have no one in work.‘

This is part of the ‘why have PIP claims increased so much’ story - as claiming certain benefits removes the cap…

And AFAIK it doesn’t apply if you work 16 hours a week either?

In order for it to be a debate and not just a rage bait is for you to be a little more precise about your argument and substantiate it with some facts.
For example, you said about that benefit cap can be worked around but you didn't specify how. Which would appear to mean you don't actually know.
People who don't need to claim benefits but do, again, how many people? How do we know they don't need benefits? Specific examples of circumstances under which you think they are able to game the system.
If you give us facts, we may be able to see your point of view. But you are not giving us facts besides the article which does indeed state that there is a benefit cap of £25k in London and £22k out of London three paragraphs below stating that families with six children will be £16k better off. So I less these families are currently receiving between £9-£6k total, I can't see it any other way other than rage bait.

You do realise if you are not working there is a benefit cap. Unless you have disabled children etc
Considering the rate of increase in children with a disability, there is indeed a higher chance that a family with 5 children has at least one child with a disability. When you had DLA and everything that comes with it, a family reliant on benefits are indeed highly likely to be better off than a family with say three children and both parents working minimal income jobs.

The future looks bleak for the next generation. Lower attaining families more likely to have more children whilst more stabled working families more likely to continue to have fewer children at a later age.

A push for diagnosis of asd and adhd continuing to grow exponentially. Griwth in number of individuals who are unable to sustain their life after the children are all over 18 with everything that comes with it.

We are already so close to the working tax payers putting less than what others take, public services collapsing, young people feeling hopeless about their future....but yes, let's continue to reward those who are least likely to contribute to a positive change for the better.

Do tell us about your experience and expertise which enables you to assess who is deserving of different levels of benefits

@topicalaffair your OP is a complete non-sequitor - approximately 38% of Universal Credit claimants in Great Britain are in employment, these benefits are not a free pass to stop working. We are a civilised society and it's not q good look to have children who can't eat. People can have 3/4/5 children while having an income sufficient to support them and then be struck by redundancy or cancer and have a much lower income. And even if that didn't happen and the child was conceived while the parents were already on a very low income, we don't punish the child with starvation.

The real scandal is that all these benefits are actually subsidies for the big businesses who have carte blanche to pay a minimum wage that is too low to actually live on, and BTL landlords charging rents that are completely unaffordable to renters who are on minimum wage. The benefits bill is money in the pocket of the wealthy and powerful, but it's those who are being exploited who are blamed for it by a right-wing media who don't want you to engage your brain and analyse what is actually happening. Don't be so naïve as to swallow the line that the Daily Mail are pushing at you.

Somehow I doubt many of those at the receiving end of these benefits are living the dream. Besides, the money is intended for caring for the children, who did not ask to be born.

I earn a decent but not huge wage and I don't begrudge those worse off than me my tax money in any way whatsoever - I would happily give more.

I’m more angry that large, very profitable, companies don’t pay their workers a decent living wage, so I (out of my tax) have to top thier staff wages up, whilst their shareholders are living the life of Riley.

I’m more angry that our public utilities are owned by Foreign investors, including other country’s governments, meaning we pay higher bills that sometimes fund the pension schemes of government workers, in those other countries.

I’m more angry that chronic underinvestment in Public Services, has led to more outsourcing, meaning that our taxes are (yet again) flowing overseas, and into the hands of profitable private businesses.

There is a lot to be angry about when it comes to where our taxes go, the Daily Mail (and others) want you to Punch Down, as it stops you looking at the kind of people who own, and run, the Media / Big Business.

Whatever you do “ Don’t look Up”

YABU to start yet another bloody benefits thread and YABU to post a Daily Mail link.

Stop reading the Mail, you'll feel better.

If you claim UC as a couple, you need to earn £1400ish per month I think it is to reach the AET. Less if you are single.

Why do you think.they are not working ?

The trouble is a large proportion of society feel 'entitled' to taxpayers money from the government, they don't bother to work full time, save into pensions etc. Also more and more people are being diagnosed disabled etc and it all has to be paid for.

Working full time should be the standard, deviations from this should be the exception, but gradually it has swung the other way. There'll come a breaking point, we may be near it....

I’m not happy to pay benefits to sham claimants who are taking the piss

Define "sham claimant taking the piss".

By DWP's own admission the number of fraudulent claims is minuscule, so by what measure are you determining who is a "sham claimant" and who is "taking the piss"?

Claimants do not set their own eligibility criterion, that's down to the Government, so it seems to me your notion of "sham claimants taking the piss" is nothing more than your resentment for the actual people themselves showing itself, because if you actually were concerned about the cost to the exchequer then the issue there is the policy, not the claimants.

Also, since the benefits in question here are still a tiny proportion of the overall welfare bill, it's telling that the subject of every single one of these threads is either families with multiple children, or the sick and disabled.

If you really were concerned about the "cost to the taxpayer", you'd be hopping mad about the absolute nonsense of retaining the triple-lock on pensions and the fact the UK State encourages large employers to pay pittance wages by ensuring they are topped up with UC.

No, it's invariably the two child cap, or PIP, or whining about skyrocketing claims for illness and disability without ever pausing to consider just why we have such and ill and unfit population.

Do they are they ?

But what's the solution? It's a dangerous path to stop people reproducing - it violates one of our most innate human rights. And once the children are here, they can't be "handed back". If they don't receive adequate nutrition and care in their first years of life, their entire lives will be negatively affected and their ability to grow to become productive in society is compromised.

Hungry, cold children perform less well academically, they're less likely to go on to tertiary and higher education, less likely to become higher earners.

Once the children are here, they need to be supported, otherwise we're just pushing the problem down the road.

People do work full time, and still need to claim due to piss poor wages.

People can’t work full time, due to a lack of affordable childcare

I think there are lots of people unhappy because there is a large group of people whose salaries are not abysmal, but also not great and they don't qualify for anything. And I don't mean benefits. It includes grants for various things, bills discounts etc.
And this large group sees everyone above and below having things but they can't reach them either via support or own money. If that makes sense. Logically no one wants anyone else to starve, but I can see why people are getting frustrated at the numbers. Tellimg them they are being stupid does not really help imho

How about we talk about why our public sector workers get paid such an abysmal amount that they rely on UC too? And someone always comes in and say but your pension is great, yes you aren’t wrong I’ll be better off when I’m retired than I am now but I might only get 5 years of retirement, I wouldn’t mind reducing my pension entitlement in order to live properly now!

I am not on the lowest banding either.

I was on benefits for a while. Didn't have to get up. Had enough money for the basics. Read a lot. It was actually quite a restful time in retrospect.

Ah welll back to the grind and stess eh !

Honestly posters work overtime on these bloody threads

Many people claim UC in a way it was ever initially intended. Either on a temporarily basis and/or because their housing costs are such they do need support. People who are working and indeed, probably are not left with much at the end of the months. Hopefully, these people are contributing towards a pension in their lifetime.

The issues are the families with 3, 4, 5 children, many who are recomposed families, sometimes 3 different mums or dads. Children who were born of parents in conflict and instability. These children who are challenged from the start are much more likely to end up with a diagnosis of asd or adhd. Mum or dad more likely to suffer from depression and anxiety...and much more likely to claim PIP and DLA for 1, 2 or 3 family members, both parents claiming to be carers.

These are the families who are certainly much better off on benefits than they could ever be working. The concern is that they are also much more likely to be raising children less likely to become net providers because even with a more financially household, the money is not best spent on their education, therapy or anything that could give them a better chance of independent living in adult life.

I am concerned that although these families are still a smallish number proportionally, our society is encouraging them to grow.

I am.concerned about our young people who are setting up in life. The 25 years old who are starting their careers, working hard to establish themselves, as they should, who once they've paid for all their bills are left with nothing left at all. They are so young and already so disillusioned because telling them that they are the winners because they are already contributing towards their pension is just making them feel even more hopeless.

I was so full of hope at 25. I was earning very little but all I could think was that in 10 years time, I'd be a home owner racking it in. It's so different now.

Just wait until you pay more for things like utilities based on income OP if you want to feel proper rage and pointlessness about earning well.

At a personal level my tax hasn't actually gone up, other than through fiscal drag. They havent put up the basic rate or my NI. Vats the same.

So there is more or less the exact same point for me working as there was under the tories.

Although I feel that truss budget which increased my mortgage a lot made things harder. Oh and that big covid debt.

How many people claiming sickness benefits are waiting for treatment? Mental health support, at least in my area has a waiting list of months, joint replacements have a long wait too, not helped by the doctors strike.And yes people shouldn't keep having children they can't support but I don't want any child to suffer because of the parents decision.

Don't bite, folks.