To be confused as to why hiring a cleaner is seen as an indulgence?

[Gahr]

This is something that I see time and again on this site, and it is SO WEIRD. People seem to think that it is the height of luxury to have a housecleaner, and also seem to be strangely apologetic about it, offering disclaimers as to why they need one. Also, I've noticed that on threads when someone has a problem with their cleaning service, they will get several posts telling them to 'clean their own house'. Nobody would tell someone to 'service their own boiler' or 'fix their own toilet'! I don't understand it at all. I have a cleaner and I wouldn't be without her.

I don't really move in what I consider affluent circles. That said, most of my friends are childfree, and children are expensive, so maybe we're 'affluent' because we don't have that expense. Maybe the better question should be 'are children a luxury?'.

I agree with this - no one would bat an eyelid if a much less busy, single man without kids had a cleaner.

It is a luxury, as is a window cleaner or car wash. Ifou can't afford it, dont prioritise any of these things then its a luxury

It's not something you need to feel guilty about though if you can afford it and want it good for you .
Everyone has different priorities. I have gym membership and enjoy regular nights away, it enhances my life, I choose to spend my disposable income on this, I don't feel guilty.

If you can't understand that for some people having spare money to pay for a cleaner/window cleaner/car wash is luxurious then I think you need to have a little more compassion. If I paid for those I couldn't afford important things, and certainly couldn't afford holidays. In the past I could have done, but not now.

I do get the point about the value of work, and I see no reason why people shouldn't have a cleaner if they can afford it, but for me (and many others) it would be a huge luxury.

Well it is a luxury.
The problem with outsourcing absolutely everything like cleaning, robot hoovers, dishwashers etc is that we have become sedentary. Our mother's and grandmothers might have spent more time on household tasks but they were much fitter, no fat jabs required when you are always active and an hour in the gym does not make up for a sedentary lifestyle.
Personally I love a bit of hard graft and feel a sense of accomplishment after painting my own house, cleaning my own kitchen, doing my own garden etc. I don't understand working just to pay other people to do things I can do myself. I'd rather save my money and retire early!
Right I'm off to clean my house and burn some calories on this grey and rainy day 🧹

People are weird about cleaners because they subconsciously, or pretty consciously, believe that it’s the woman’s job to crack on with it- even though it’s absolute shite

My mum is the perfect case in point of this.

Mortgage paid off, decent public sector salary (50k-ish), loves tweakments, designer, Botox, hair- constantly having something done. she doesn’t live the frugal lifestyle by any means.

me and DH have a high household income, but 2 small children, only 5 years worth of equity in our house, him working full time, me working part-time, then doing childcare for a baby the other days….and she gives me SO much shit for having a cleaner every 2 weeks

She would never have one because she genuinely sees it as her cross to bear, and thinks I should suffer too

It’s because traditionally working class women were (are) judged by each other on the cleanliness of their home. People couldn’t judge each other on possessions because nobody had any but they could judge each other on the cleanliness of the home. This extended to the work ethic or lack thereof of the wife- an untidy home meant a lazy woman.

There a story in our family that on her first visit to their new marital home, my Granddad’s sister (who thought my Grandad had married beneath him) was caught looking under the bed to see if my Grandma polished the bed springs.

It's a luxury if it's something you could easily do yourself but choose to pay someone else to do it. It's a necessity if you are medically unable to do it yourself.

There's nothing wrong with having a cleaner per se, but for most people, it's something they could easily manage without, which is what makes it a luxury.

The level to which it is a luxury depends on the circumstances, also. For the pp who is a single parent and it's one less job to do, it's less of a luxury. For myself, with a husband and no DC in an average sized house, with a not overly strenuous work schedule, it would be a massive luxury and positively indulgent. It's not like I haven't got time to do it, I'm fit and healthy, etc, so is husband. We don't need it, it's not enough of a ball ache to do that we want it, so yes, it's a luxury.

I was laughing at an old Grays Anatomy the other day, where some doctors were surprised that some other doctors didn't pay to have their laundry done. Now that's an extravagance I'd love!

Baffling for sure 🤔

I work around 80 hours per week. MIL takes great delight in reminding us that SHE never had a cleaner. That’s because she never bloody worked!!! I would love to have the time to clean my own house but this would mean I would have to give up cooking for my family or spending time with them. We get an hour together per day (at best) and I don’t want to spend that time cleaning.

Of course it’s a luxury! Lots of people can’t afford one, lots of people work all hours under the sun and still can’t. But you have no reason to feel guilty for it. For the same reasons no one should feel guilty for most luxuries. People are within their rights to spend their money as they choose. I don’t look down on people for it and I absolutely would have one if I could afford to.

Very much so. It seems that alot of society generally (and MN as well) seem determined to guilt-trip women for just about anything. Their looks,their weight, their jobs Vs how much time they spend with their children, their children Vs if they have jobs or not, and what they choose to spend their disposable income on. It's another form of keeping women in their place through all these rules and regulations that we think we have left behind in a more enlightened age. Another set of often unwritten rules. We don't want to be seen as 'lazy' and unable to cope with doing everything we do plus running our household to a professional standard.

I'm not that good at it myself, but I do wish we could all just be out and proud about whoever we are, whatever we do and particularly not feel we have to apologise for spending our own money on things we want and/ or need.

Those are two different things. We have a cleaner, it is definitely a luxury but I don’t feel guilty about it - it brings many benefits to my household while providing a source of flexible SE work to someone who needs it.

Do I feel lucky to be in a position to afford it? Absolutely?

Do I feel like I should feel guilt or shame? Not at all.

It’s a luxury in so much as you don’t need a cleaner and can do without.

But - I agree Mumsnet is very funny about women using cleaners (and even childcare sometimes). Any kind of ‘women’s work’.

For some reason people seem to think women outsourcing these jobs is a bad thing. I’m not entirely sure why.

No one criticises men for outsourcing household tasks.

What? What are you on about?

There's nothing wrong with employing someone to clean for you, but it's definitely a luxury.
Most people couldn't afford that. Genuinely.
If you can, that's absolutely fine, but maybe understand why most people can't.

I am disabled, have cancer so find it hard doing housework. I’m only 52. I don’t see it as a luxury at all. I get pip and benefits also work part time. Off at the moment due to chemo. That’s what my pip is for or adult disability benefits are for.

Why shouldn’t she be paid that?

Of course it is, that supports you and enables you to live with dignity. I would challenge anyone who says that your cleaner isn't performing an essential task!

That's absolutely absurd. I would laugh in her face. What on earth is the point of getting all dolled up and spending big money on that, and then scrubbing your own tub?!

We have a cleaner, it’s a luxury and I don’t feel guilty about it - it’s a luxury because it means I don’t have to spend my free time doing something I COULD be doing myself but pay someone else to do. Unfortunately she comes once a week for 4 hours and I would really like her to come 3 times a week 😂 but she’s a busy busy lady!
She keeps our house shiny and clean and I feel like she’s actually the key to our happy house, keeps everything on an even keel.
of course we still clean something daily just to keep on top of it.

The number of people relying on food banks is increasing everyday. People are genuinely struggling out there with the rising costs of everything so yes while it’s absolutely your right to spend your money on what you wish it is absolutely a luxury to majority of the country right now to be able to afford a cleaner.

Nobody would tell someone to 'service their own boiler' or 'fix their own toilet'! I don't understand it at all.

Maybe because cleaning one's own house isn't a specific learned and complicated skill, such as fixing a toilet or boiler (the latter could literally cause an explosion if you don't know what you're doing). But, hoovering, ironing, etc.? I'm good, I'll do that myself.

No you are simply out of touch with a large proportion of the population regarding finances FFS. You and your friends can spend your money any way you like but you do have to have a certain level of finances to actually afford to pay someone else to clean for you. And to me it's wild you can't see that.