To wonder why people keep voting SNP?

[Carla786]

I don't know a lot about Scottish politics and I may be missing important things they've done. However, I used to have a lot of respect for Nicola Sturgeon but her handling of gender critical issues has destroyed that. The SNP do not seem very effective at reducing drugs, poverty, or other serious issues.
My understanding was that quite a few people vote SNP not because they want independence (which most Scots appear to not want) but because they think the SNP are more committed to Scotland sorcifically than Tories and Labour. How accurate is this though..?

Since most Scots appear to not want independence, I thought the SNP was probably high achieving in other areas & Tories & Labour seen as poor by comparison. Or is it more often seen as the best of 3 bad options? Or is SNP much more positive than the impression I've got?

The 2014 referendum wasn't 'won' or 'lost' by the SNP or any single political party.

The 'Yes' campaign was much broader than just the SNP, and included lots of other political voices/ strands.

It succeeded in getting a lot of people inspired/ interested in the future of the country, participating in political conversations and becoming more cynical about the mainstream media.

Unfortunately I believe the Scottish Govt has squandered a great deal of that energy and goodwill since.

They're very good at making policy pronouncements that sound great, but not at actually implementing things that work in practice.

Sure, Sturgeon did a better job than Johnson during the pandemic, but that was a pretty low bar.

The way they carried out gender recognition reform (and cases like 'Isla Bryson') -and introduced laughably bad 'hate crime'/ 'non-crime' legislation- alienated a lot of people. The Scottish Greens have totally lost their way/ any serious environmental focus/ credibility.

Working class communities have long seen Labour politicians taking the piss & mismanaging local councils, but have now seen that the SNP isn't any better, on an even bigger scale. (And there are still plenty of unanswered questions about Sturgeon, her husband and their camper van..)

And the Scottish Socialists never recovered from the saga of Tommy Sheridan. Alba has its problems. We're all fucked.

Interesting, that's definitely my idea of Reform...

Good line - ironically I was listening to Bob Marley's Small Axe today. That definitely sounds like the situation ...I know the SNP have done some good things but that seems dwarfed imo by the issues pps have mentioned..

Thank you, very interesting post.

Re hating the English- why is this? I know I'm naive about this issue, and that Scots do have just grievances about English historical actions, as well as the effect Westminster politics have on them..

I suppose I just find it harder to understand Scottish anti-English animosity than Irish (given the recent history, events like Bloody Sunday) and Welsh (effect of mines closing) . Is mainly fuelled by general feelings of anger at English governmental control? Or other factors...?

The majority of Scots DO want independence then?

I suppose UK government shenanigans post-2014 might have pushed people towards independence. Although SNP has had its own shenanigans...

If polls really show a majority want it I think there should be another vote.

I'm Scottish, living in an area with a significant number (in fact by this point it's almost a majority) of the residents being English. These are not my own views but I know that there is a lot of under-the-radar anti-englishness by many of the local Scots. For some it is historical, mines and industry decimation and poll tax under thatcher (but Ive heard some going back to the clearances and referring to the recent influx from England as the modern highland clearances), for others it's more about feeling like an outsider in the community that they grew up in- I hear a lot of complaints about barely hearing a Scottish accent here now, how local traditions are gradually slipping away as the families that have celebrated them for generations can't compete with the offers on homes being put in by people who have moved up here and have to move away, the change in the make up of community councils and boards, their priorities changing in a way that wouldn't necessarily align with that of the locals. I think that for these individuals there is an underlying resentment however it is not on an individual level and I never see or hear any locals being anything but polite to the English that have moved here, despite what they say about the English in general, which makes me think that it is more that they take issue with the changes that are happening in their community and finding that difficult rather than that they take issue with any individual English person.
There is also very definitely many who take issue with Westminster control. I know very very few Scots who don't want independence, and many of those that I know who want independence do not like the SNP but at present see them as a means to an end.

Thank you, this is very interesting.

I'll do a longer reply tomorrow, but for now I'll say that I didn't know there had been an influx of English immigrants. That makes a lot of sense. I've read similar re European areas with lots of tourism : houses get bought up, local culture changes etc. I can definitely understand why people would feel justifiably angry about changes like that.

Saying that, free university fees and a free prescriptions are such a benefit to us through them.

Free university tuition is killing universities in Scotland. Various European countries do have free university tuition but virtually none of them are world class like the Scottish unis - St Andrews, Edinburgh, Glasgow etc It costs money to maintain those standards and that reputation. Universities in Norway, Sweden, Germany - can anyone name one ? No, because they are nowhere near the same league as the big Scottish unis. I can see why it’s such a successful bribe to Scottish voters - but it is completely unsustainable.

I’m Scottish living outside Scotland. No interest in independence, lots of interest in women’s rights and single sex spaces, so I wouldn’t vote for the SNP anyway. Violent men in female prisons ? Girls being made to share toilets and changing rooms with boys? Rape counselling services refusing to provide services to women unless they are willing to be counselled by men? Its unbe-fucking-leivable. Every woman in Scotland who votes for this shit should be ashamed of themselves.

I’m not an SNP supporter, but I end up voting for them more often than not because I’m left leaning and pro independence and they’re the best of a bad bunch at most elections.

Every vote of mine is tactical in Scotland - whoever is the closest threat to them in my constituency. Sadly it hasn’t made any difference yet but will never ever vote for them.

There are far more important things than bloddy independence! If Scotland was independent, Westminster would not have been able to stop that GRR bill, which would have hurt women even far worse! It is ONLY being in the union that SAVED women.

The last thing Scotland needs is independence! The very, very, VERY last thing! In fact, I am terrified for women if it ever does become independent. Everyone should vote to insure independence never happens!

Being part of Westminster is a safety and security measure and acts as a check-and-balance against bad, malignant policy, as the GRR bill absolutely and comprehensively proved. If anyone was still for independence before GRR, surely anyone who is compos mentis and sane and able to utilise a modicum of critical thinking would support staying in the union after that.

Well I'll beg to differ because Scottish independence is of overwhelming importance if we have any chance of a decent society in Scotland.
My fear is the moment has now passed.

It's the whole 'wheesht for Indy' thing.

'Ladies! Don't you worry your pretty little heads about women's rights and being locked up with a double rapist! We'll get around to it after Indy.....maybe. You just keep on making the teas, stuffing envelopes and knocking on doors for the cause. Indy! Indy! Indy! (cont)'

It is NOT more important than women having a safe place to change, girls staying home when on their period because the boys go through the sanitary bins in their gender neutral toilets, women restricting fluids during the day so they don't have to go to the unisex toilets risking UTIs (and as someone who has a relative that died from sepsis due to a UTI, I know how dangerous this is), the 5000+ sexual assaults on hospital wards, women avoiding medical tests/operations because males are doing them and/or on their ward, women and girls withdrawing from participating in society. These things affect EVERY woman and girl EVERY DAY. Nothing, absolutely nothing is more vital than womens safety, privacy and dignity. Otherwise women and girls will stay home and withdraw from participating in society, as happened during the Urinary Leash era. And Westminster is desperately needed for OUR PROTECTION.

Exactly. It's disheartening how many are so deeply and utterly obsessed with stupid independence not realising the safety of women and girls is far more important! Fuck independence! I want women and girls to be safe. Literally nothing in life is more important. I think this obsession with 'independence' is simply privilege. Privileged people not seeing the risk that is right in front of their eyes.

Scotland were colonisers .Partners with England . And before you start on about the Highland Clearances, we did it to our ain.
Class. Wonder why so many people from the West Indian former colonies have Scottish names ? But we sweep that under the carpet and winge victimhood and blame the English and Wastemonster.

I don't know what world you live in but you appear to have a totally idealised and unrealistic view of Westminster if you really are looking for it to protect anyone other than the rich and powerful and it's own interests.

The only reason that the utterly poor, ill thought out and women hating legislation which was the GRR Bill wasn't put into place was the invoking of a Section 35 as Scottish legislation cannot override UK wide Equality law.

Amendments to pause the process for an application for a GRC for someone who was being concurrently convicted for sex offences against women was voted down by MSP's during the GRR debate, among other amendments intended to safeguard women.

I don't know if you were asleep when the GRR bill was passed in Scotland and then rescinded by Westminster, but they saved women and girls then. You have an idealised and unrealistic and very privileged life if women and girls including rape survivors like me being able to enter a female only change room is not important to you but some airy fairy idealistic view of 'independence' is.

I don’t know how anyone could vote for such a cruel party that is fighting to put male rapists in cells with vulnerable female prisoners.

What the fuck are you on about, no one is fighting for that.

The Scottish government is going to court to have transwomen (fully intact males) rapists who have been convicted of rape placed in female prisons. You obviously have not been keeping up to date with what has been happening.

Scots hatred for the English?
Some Scots.
Part of it is a dislike, distrust of being "run from afar". Westminster's decision making may not always have the best interests of a country making up the UK as first concern. It will look at the UK as a whole. The attitude of the "elite" the media and civil service senior executive.

However there is a sick streak which by replacing "English" with any other minority in the country or world reveals the speaker as an out and out racist, bigot and piece of scum. At least two parties thrive on this, draw support from this and do not report it kick out members who speak thus.

Scotland has had a worrying mental attitude towards success. "Dinnae get above your station", "I remember (the person who discovered a cure for cancer, perpetual motion and saved millions) when they peed themselves at the fair when they were five." Tall poppy syndrome - I hate to quite P G Wodehouse, but he picked on a vein of hate.

Most Scots are welcoming, keen to open their minds. Some, the ignorant fear the new. Towns do not have the community they had because people prefer to watch TV of an evening, use Social media, fear the scoutmaster - cannot be bothered. Complain about no social.housing, having bought their own council house for a steal.

As Oscar Wilde said "each man kills the thing he loves". Please sur, it wisnae me!"

What, apart from the judicial review taking place in the next couple of days at the Court of Sessions where the Scottish Government are preparing to argue that refusing to place males in the female prison estate breaches those males human rights?

Or the fact that up until last year, under SPS (an executive agency of the Scottish Government) policy violent male sex offenders were being placed in the female prison estate following official self policy and was only partly overturned due to public outcry prompted by the photo of Isla Bryson?

I also believe Scotland could thrive as an independent country. However, the SNP under Sturgeon has failed to run the country effectively. It's turned into a virtue-signalling PR exercise.

Why do they keep winning? Lack of alternatives really. The calibre of politician in Holyrood is generally dire. As a life long lefty Labour Party member, it's a sad day when I watch Holyrood debates and find myself nodding along to the Tory contributions.

I was so excited to see a Scottish parliament. What's it actually achieved - other than created a vast number of public sector jobs and funded a plethora of quangos that don't seem accountable to anyone? Never thought I'd say this but I think Reform's policy of shutting Holyrood down might be a vote winner. And that poor standing lies at the door of the SNP.

I honestly can’t find anything on this, can you add a link to a source please?