To wonder why people keep voting SNP?

[Carla786]

I don't know a lot about Scottish politics and I may be missing important things they've done. However, I used to have a lot of respect for Nicola Sturgeon but her handling of gender critical issues has destroyed that. The SNP do not seem very effective at reducing drugs, poverty, or other serious issues.
My understanding was that quite a few people vote SNP not because they want independence (which most Scots appear to not want) but because they think the SNP are more committed to Scotland sorcifically than Tories and Labour. How accurate is this though..?

Since most Scots appear to not want independence, I thought the SNP was probably high achieving in other areas & Tories & Labour seen as poor by comparison. Or is it more often seen as the best of 3 bad options? Or is SNP much more positive than the impression I've got?

Has there been a successful country which has transitioned from not independent to independent other than by war, by a colonial power relinquishing control AND maintained or improved living standards? I can thi.k of Czech Republic/ Slovakia but that was more a 50/50 split. Sudan/ south Sudan - aye right that went well, not. Much as some NatZ like the vision of us puir scoats slaves toiling under English plantation owners - get real.

The not Tory, not labour and what have the natz ever done for us sadly draws people to reform. That will end badly, but reform, based on immigration policy not devolved is cloud cuckoo land.

More devolved powers - yes. As was promised... Whose offering that?
Sadly both the Scottish Labour and Scottish conservatives have decent people. Unfortunately people will.look at Westminster's performance.

I dearly want independence for Scotland but am so disappointed with the SNP. that I do.not think I could bring myself to.vote for them again. Poor policies, mediocre (or.worse).SNP politicians, complete lack of accountability or transparency, party itself also ridden with cliques and a closed shop. Scottish Greens just as bad. Very depressing.

The problem with that argument about emissions is that the environment doesn't care if the CO2 is produced by one person in Edinburgh or 100 people in China. It's the absolute amounts that count and unless politicians in China, India, Russia & N American make drastic policy changes global warming will continue regardless of what Scotland does. China's consumption emissions are rapidly increasing as their middle class expands. Domestic consumption emissions (adjusted for trade) are now the same per capita in China and the UK - largely due to coal generated power in China. Only the Chinese government can change that.

https://ourworldindata.org/data-insights/per-capita-co-emissions-in-china-now-match-those-in-the-united-kingdom

I’m an Independence supporter, but even if I was not, I have and still would, would vote SNP up here. They care locally, and about Scotland - my SNP MP was great (currently have a Labour bloke who lives in England, doesn’t know the area and who is worse than useless). Scottish Labour is a joke and an embarrassment, you wouldn’t let any of them run a bath. Tories are not very popular up here apart from certain areas, and the ones I do know (my local council has quite a few) are in it for the gravy train as much as Labour. Scottish Greens are sadly a joke - that Zack bloke down south may well help things if he pops up here now and again, but our Scottish Greens have, err, lost their way a bit. I can totally see why people here, as much as down south, feel politically homeless.

I vote SNP because, despite everything, I still fundamentally believe that Scotland can and should be independent.

Plus my MSP is great, which is in stark contrast to the absolutely useless twat I have for a Tory MP.

You are very wrong if you think the SNP are remotely interested in independence. The current party are not.
Many independence supporters just havent figured that out yet.

The SNP were a single-issue party and finding themselves in government and in need of more candidates to stand for elections they just kept winning, they became a very broad church without clear policy.

I liked a lot of what Nicola Sturgeon wanted (reduce child poverty, address the drug and alcohol problem, taxing higher earners). Unfortunately, it never exactly came to fruition and some things just got worse. I don’t even know what they really stand for anymore. That said, I’d vote for anyone to keep reform out.

I’m a floating but non-Indy voter and our local Labour MSP has been excellent. We were quoted a 2 year wait for a medical appointment, he agreed it was appalling and got an appointment for 2 weeks time. He was also helpful with schools ludicrous failure to safeguard my child (and the rest of my child’s class). Non-SNP MSPs are useful when it comes to mitigating the affects of the SNPs disastrous policies. I’ve never contacted an SNP MSP but judging their performance in Parliament they would do nothing but deny an issue exists.

For those wanting an independent Scotland why? The country would be SO much poorer. What are you getting in return? Why is it worth the consequences?

This.
I have seen the behavior from within.
Toxic take downs of decades long members who dared to speak up. Going from a member lead conviction party to to a powerful clique led party who are solely interested in devolution and keeping themselves and their hangers on on the gravy train.
In recent manifestos , the labour party mentioned independence more often than the SNP did.
I place this at the door of Sturgeon, a liar who I believe along with her coven should be in prison.
The New SNP needs to go.

Well to be fair Nicola Sturgeon tried. She needs the UK government to agree to a referendum and they’re not interested. There is nothing the SNP can do without UK agreement.

So your snp lovely future includes men on women’s hospital wards, rape crisis centres, hostels and women’s aid accommodation?

youre in agreement with your ex Dear Leader that Isla Bryson, Katie Dolatowski and Amy George are all the true victims who are being hounded and treated unfairly for people wanting them to be tried as the males they are?

"the world doesn't care where the pollution comes from" is a rather weak argument. Wherever it comes from matters and the UK can't point the finger at other higher polluters until it does all it can to limit it's own pollution. If Scotland went indie it would rely almost totally on the FF industry for it's cash. That isn't sustainable in more than one sense.

"China is the largest generator of embodied trade carbon emissions, meaning a portion of these emissions are linked to products exported globally. China produces over one-third of the world's manufactured goods."

"The country is the world's largest investor in renewable energy...with China accounting for US$126.6 billion or 45% of the global investments"

Equating their domestic consumption to ours is only part of the story.

I live in Scotland. I support Scottish independence.

However the SNP have done a pretty shit job of governing the country (as have the Scottish Greens, during their time in power - with very little to show for it in terms of environmental policy/ impact), there is loads of corruption and political posturing - and made it obvious in recent years that they have no real interest in making independence a reality.

If we ever get independence, we obviously wouldn't need the SNP any more, and they would become utterly irrelevant, which tbh is a great reason to vote for this!

All of the political parties are spectacularly bad, I haven't come across any particularly great politicians yet but have met plenty of dire ones, extremely self-interested and using their positions to enrich themselves and their relatives/ pals. I'm going to find it very hard to vote for anyone at all in the upcoming elections.

I’m not a Scot, but I guess they have their reasons.

I don’t understand why people would vote Green, with their idiot leader, but each to their own. 🤷‍♀️

I've voted SNP in the past and probably will again. I don't agree with all of their policies - gender being one ,- but it is one policy amongst many.

After almost 2 decades in power they have most certainly made mistakes but so does every other government that has been in power for a long time. But at the end of the day my political beliefs are fairly liberal. They are the party which closest represents more of my views than any other.

This reflects my thinking too. Most people I know vote SNP because they like their MSPs, MPs and many of their policies. They have done many good things alongside a few mistakes. John Swinney feels like a safe pair of hands.

That is not true. But the reality is there is nothing they can do about it. Even if 90% of the Scottish population voted in favour they are powerless unless the Westminster government agrees to it and there is zero chance of that happening any longer.

Scotland had it's one chance and will likely never get another. Unless it goes down the more traditional route, raises an army and marches on Carlisle.

I don’t know. If the SNP got 70% of the vote I don’t think Westminster would have an option. But they won’t.

I want Scotland to be an independent country.

I am voting SNP or Green because that is how to achieve independence.

Once Scotland has independence that does not mean to say the best interests of women in particular, and the population in general will be necessarily be served by having an SNP government.

And having one party perpetually in power is good for no one.

Once we have independence then who knows how the political parties will change and develop and who knows how people will vote and what policies we will be able to vote for.

But surely the principal problem is that the SNP did not win the 2014 referendum? Is there any indication they would win a new one? If they did win a referendum, especially by a strong margin, surely the situation would be different re Westminster?

I don't vote for the SNP because they're pish. Embarrassed at the absolute dog's dinner they've made of governing the country. They're not interested nor would they be capable of running Scotland as an independent country. Currently, they can fuck up absolutely everything and somehow find a way to blame someone else. If it was just on them, they'd be fucked. And if we started listing their failings, we'd be here to the end of next week.

That said, there's not much to be said for the other parties. Greens - batshit radge, Lib Dems - smug Tory lites, Labour - don't have the courage of their own convictions, Tory - smug actual Tory, Reform - eh, no. Like many Scottish women, I am politically homeless.

Hahaha, look at all the absolute bullshit stories people fall for on this website and you say they are thinkers. What an echo chamber this is. SNP are going to win the next election because scottish people vote for them

They can’t hold a referendum unless Westminster allows it. They had their chance and it failed, and the only way that would happen imo would be if the SNP were to achieve 50%+ of the vote in a general election, indicating genuine public clamour for independence.

Personally I’d say that’s unthinkable. In retrospect 2014 was probably the perfect set of circumstances for the pro-independence side – a relatively fresh nationalist government in Scotland, a wet Tory government in London which had no strong unionist bent and no selfish interest in holding onto Scottish votes, still relatively benign economic and geopolitical conditions, and an actual swell of enthusiasm among the young.

All that and they still couldn’t even breach 45%. Brexit briefly put the idea back on the table but very feebly which shows nobody’s really actually that serious about it anymore. There’s no way this happens again I would say.

The SNP have some policies I strongly support. Some examples:

Free university education - a norm in many euro countries, and it should be in England and Wales too

Higher income tax - though I’d prefer them to go much further on this

Free prescriptions

Baby box - I don’t personally need this so haven’t applied for it for any of my babies, but the principle that no baby should start life without the basics is an important one

Theres a lot I don’t agree with too, a lot they’ve mishandled, and there’s a glaring shortage of talent in the party. But of the available options they’re the best for someone with my politics.

I voted for indy in 2014 but probably wouldn’t now. I think the parallels with how Brexit has played out are too hard to ignore. But this is irrelevant as I don’t see any realistic prospect of independence any time soon.

Fascinating thread! I can't reply tonight bit will reply properly tomorrow.