To think my Grammar School DD 2 with an IQ of 119 should be aiming for at least Grade 7's in all her GCSE subjects.

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My DD'2 is currently in the process of choosing her GCSE options for next year year 10 and at a Girls Grammar School in Essex. However, I am seriously upset with her attitude at the moment regarding what she thinks grades she should be achieving at the end of year 11. The, schools expectations are grade 7 and above for all subjects . The, other problem is because DD is in year 9 she obviously did not do her SATS at 11 so I have no predicted pathway to convince her. DD'2 has convinced herself, she will only be capable of at best 'all' grade 5's at end of year 11 despite having a decent IQ of 119. For, the record DD 1 IQ is 122 and she is expected to get between 6- 8 GCSE's at 9 and the others at 7/8.
Am I reasonable to think she is just being lazy, or is she suffering from a little bit of confidence, due to 'impostor' syndrome and her sisters likely results. I have looked at various sources online, which suggest that with a good study ethos her grades should not be hugely dissimilar to DD 1's. There, are also a couple of 'rebels' who are friends of hers playing up at school currently, for which the school believe is year 9 blues..

She is probably capable of getting mainly 7s with effort. Not based on iq which means little to me but that she got into grammar.

It sounds like a very pressured and skewed environment where people getting 7s are made to feel like they have only just scraped through to sixth form This might be impacting her attitude and how she feels. Even an element of self sabotage or trying to manage your reactions in advance?

Also.stop timing her homework every night!! That's unhinged! There will be consequences at school if she doesn't do it/doesn't do a high enough standard.

This is meant kindly - I think you need a more consuming job or a project or something to invest in and let your daughters be....

She, has also said the idea of doing 2 hours homework Monday- Friday is not something she wishes to do. I currently have to make sure constantly that she is doing around 1 hour 20 minutes a night homework, because if I did not watch her she would lie to me how long she had spent on it

I don't blame her, poor bugger. 2 hours of homework every night? And you standing over her, forcing it - do you think that's encouraging a love of learning? Do you think she's taking it all in in any meaningful way?

You're raising a human, not a set of numbers you can boast about to anyone who will listen
This poster had it bang on. You're going to ruin that girls life and your relationship with it.

I've always thought it an odd thing to have your child IQ tested. It's the kind of thing footballers who left school age 14 have tested to prove a point in interviews (I think I remember Frank Lampard doing this), but that almost nobody of genuinely meaningful high intellect or achievement ever does, and would consider the equivalent of adding 5m swimming badge to their CV.

An hour and a half homework every day in Y9 sounds excessive. My Y9 who is at a good comprehensive and on track for getting 7s+ at GCSE probably does about 2-3 hours a week max. Also this cohort definitely did take Sats.

I think at this stage when they're picking options you need to be focusing at what she likes, what subjects she's good at, what are her teachers saying. Surely they'll be telling you if there are any concerns? What subjects does she actually want to do?

I'd also check the 6th form entry requirements. It would be quite odd to say a 7 in English is essential when it's one of the subjects that even the brightest kids often do badly in.

My eldest daughter who is at one of the top grammars in the country (based on league tables) needs to get six 7s to stay there but just needs 7s in her A level subjects.

Why are you putting an unbelievable amount of pressure on her now.

Let her choose her options, the subjects she likes and enjoys, encourage homework (two hours every night is excessive after a full day at school) and encourage activities away from school. Does she go any clubs or do any sports? They would build confidence and resilience.

Pressure on grades now for exams she's not sitting for over two years is too much. Stop.

Don’t veer into unreasonable pushy parent territory OP. Red flags 🚩 galore in your post. It is I am sure entirely well intended but being so transactional and strategic about results is not helpful.

1. IQ measures are unreliable and who wants to be labelled!?
2. Despite what anyone is told at school exam results are not what determines how clever you are or how successful you’ll be in life.

Young people already feel huge pressure. It’s great you take an interest but maybe channel it more proportionally.

The point of learning should be to develop the skills needed to learn and demonstrate understanding. For life.

Like building up muscles, it’s that skillset, time management, being organised with competing demands, study and motivation techniques, determination, resilience when it gets tough, acceptance can’t always be perfect, that sometimes will fail and the lesson there is to try again… studying should though hard, build confidence and general aptitude and not a mortal fear of failure, pressure or letting your coach (!!) i.e. parent down.

I sailed through my own exams at that age. School had promised all the doors it would open… if only the grades were right.

It didn’t!

Turned out at that time more doors opened for the kids with £ parental support who got less impressive grades than for the bright working class kids… learned experience and working way up much more important in the end.

Plus employers are looking for right can do attitude, reliability, conscientiousness, and whatever role needs etc so if they have two candidates and one got an A* in English and the other a B, it will matter not a jot if the second one is the better worker and fit for the organisation 9/10.

Exams matter, can in some cases give a foot in door… but it is not the be all and end all, and approaching it like you are could be counterproductive. Huge amount of pressure to put on your DD.

Everyone's child doesn't get those kinds of grades. One of mine got significantly in excess of that, one somewhere around that and one barely scraped through.

All bright kids. Different personalities.

My eldest never did 2 hours of homework a night and got mostly 7/8/9 at GCSE. You don't need to do that much every night, especially in year 9! Let her chill and enjoy some freedom before GCSE year.

Her IQ isn't really relevant. As long as she tries her best it's all she can do. Stop putting pressure on her.

The IQ score is a red herring and irrelevant.

She needs her confidence boosting and not letting her think she's a failure

You have a DD who got a place at a competitive grammar school - she's already done really well and by definition is in a brainy cohort. Her getting a 'middling' score in her cohort is very good

My DC is also at a grammar in Y9 and the expectations are that they aim for 7s or higher. Most of the DC see this as a challenge but a few get a bit overwhelmed.
My DC certainly doesn't do 2hrs of homework a night, it's more like 30 mins so that does sound like overkill TBH.

Boost her confidence. She's done so well already

I imagine she can. My dd thought she was going to get much lower grades than the 54 she needed for grammar sixth form. I remember trying to convince her that she should aim for it at the start of year 10. She got 63.

Honestly for now I’d chill out a bit. Dd2 is also in year 9 I have no idea at all what she’s going to get and she’s a total law unto herself in everything 😂😂

Pressure on grades now for exams she's not sitting for over two years is too much. Stop.

👏 This

IQ doesn't measure what you call 'academic competency'. My elder daughter has a high IQ, and dyslexia. This mitigates against 'academic competency'. Or, to put it another way, what she's very good at - visual arts and design - got her high marks in only two GCSEs. The rest she struggled with.

So what? She's in her twenties now, making a living at what she's good at, and loving it. She's never lacked confidence in her abilities, and I think that that's partly because we never said to her 'with an IQ like yours, you should be getting 9s across the board'.

We never said it, because it makes no sense.

This. There’s only 3 I can think of and one near impossible to to get in.

Honestly for now I’d chill out a bit. Dd2 is also in year 9 I have no idea at all what she’s going to get and she’s a total law unto herself in everything 😂😂

@Satisfiedwithanapple wins MN for today 🤣🤣🤣 … know which parent I’d rather!

DD is also y9. Due to SATS she’s expected to get 7-9 grades in everything. At parents evening all her teachers wanted her to take their subjects for GCSE.However , I am not putting any pressure on her. While we have discussed what’s needed for the A levels she wants to take (and then Uni) , we have also discussed other paths and options. I don’t want her to feel like she’s failed or her life is ruined at 16. Ideally both I and she want good grades, but definitely aim for a pass and anything else is a bonus, and if she doesn’t pass (who knows what can happen), there are options. Put the work in, try your best and we’ll figure it out.

Homework wise , she does what she gets , plus extra revision when needed. I pay no attention to the times set by teachers. She can finish one that’s supposed to take an hour in 20 minutes , or one that’s supposed to take 30 minutes in 2 hours , especially if she needs some extra help from me. We work with what we’ve got , not some arbitrary, random measure.

Why are you discussing grades in year 9. Better to be looking at the (very limited these days) choices of subject you DD wants to do. She will do well at what she is interested in and will be interested in most things if they are explicitly taught so that she gains the confidence of being able to do them. Also, what does she want to do after year 11?

Why didn’t she do SATS in Y6? I assumed you were saying because of Covid but my DS2 is in Year 10 and did them?
Using IQ as a bench mark for exam ability is pretty ridiculous. I have 2 DS’s. DS1 is now 21 so got teacher assessed grades for his GCSE’s due to Covid. He is very intelligent (no idea of his IQ!), motivated, hardworking and determined. He got a mix of 5’s, 6’s and 7’s. He may have got highter if he’d actually sat the exams but we will never know. He then absolutely smashed his A-levels and got A star, AA and is at at top Sports Uni doing a Sports Science degree and is on course to get a First. I can almost guarantee that once he starts job hunting, they won’t look at GCSE grades at all only his degree classification and where he got it from. I put a huge huge amount of pressure on him during his GCSE years and I would send myself and him into a complete panic if he got a slightly lower grade than expected in mocks etc, it’s totally meaningless.
DS2 on the hand is probably more intelligent than DS1 but has the work ethic of a snail. He does everything he needs to do but no more. He however finds exams incredibly hard. He is also Autistic and the effort it takes him to read between the lines of what the questions are asking him means he doesn’t always reach his full potential. I’ve backed off completely with him and just let him do his thing. I suspect he’s probably on track for 5’s and 6’s, whereas his intelligence level on some things would lead you to believe he is capable of all 9’s.
My very long winded point is, intelligence does not determine exam grades. Hard work, motivation and a desire to want to achieve those grades is what determines then.
As long as she is doing her best, not failing and will pass enough to get her into whatever she wants to do next then please just let her be.

Op I work with 16 year olds plus and Ive never come across a lazy student yet.
Un motivated for various reasons , traumatised ,in diagnosed sen etc.
Not taught well ,boring teachings ,teachers not teaching for the specific cohort if there are more visual learners .

Fwiw I have two one at grammar and I've never pushed either.

One is predicted three A stars a level and mostly 9s lowest 7 sg GCSE. No two will be different
Never ever pushed

The other will do very well and I'd never push her either.
You sound extremely intense and comparing the two children . Be very wary and careful of doing this.

Talk about dreams and aspirations end goals...try not to push

Stop putting all this pressure on her! It will backfire, She is still only in year 9. Stop talking about exams unless she brings it up then just reassure her.
She is at a good school who will give her a push if needed.

Has your daughter been assessed by an ed psych to see if she has any SEN? They are often hereditary and, given your diagnoses, she may have some of them herself. She may have been able to compensate for them until now but, as the work gets harder, those techniques may not be sufficient and so she may need some extra support in finding additional strategies or being given extra time in exams and so forth.

I think you also need to try and find out whether she is aiming low as she doesn’t want to disappoint anyone (including herself), if, due to the environment she is in, she genuinely thinks that that is all she is worthy of as she feel much thicker than everyone else or whether she is interested in future careers which have relatively low entry requirements and so doesn’t see the point in working hard. On the second point (about feeling thick), so much of this can depend on your social group. If you happen to be in a group with friends who are effortlessly getting the grades, it is really disheartening. It may be that your DD2’s social group is like this and so she just can’t be bothered as she doesn’t see the point.

My DCs got all 7-9s at GCSE in a good comprehensive (well DS got one 6 in a language but he didn’t really bother revising as he hated it).

There’s no way I would’ve predicted this in year 9 - it’s way off Year 11, loads could change. DD was the first year of the numbered grades and we thought she’d get 6/7s - she was never exceptionally clever but worked hard.

No idea re IQ of my DC - not sure it has much bearing on school achievement as do many factors are in play there including attitude and peer pressure.

I’d encourage her to pick the options she enjoys as she’s most likely to work hard in them.

To be fair she isn’t in a grammar with high required grades for sixth form entry like the OP’s daughter. I might be more worried if she was about her missing them. But then I’m not sure that environment would suit her anyway.

And she also has been on a weird trajectory where she was pretty bad at primary tbh and seems to now be in top sets and to be doing pretty well. So pray with us it continues mumsnetters. I hope she will get what the op wants her daughter to get too, but we have no power over it in the end. All we can do is support and encourage/ build their confidence.

I’m also unconvinced that SATs mean much tbh.

Just make sure she's doing her homework etc
My daughter thought she could only aim to get a 5
But in a recent mock test she had a 7
And she's year 11
Why worry in year 9?
IQ means nothing lol
Anyone can get the highest marks with practice and perseverance