To think my Grammar School DD 2 with an IQ of 119 should be aiming for at least Grade 7's in all her GCSE subjects.

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My DD'2 is currently in the process of choosing her GCSE options for next year year 10 and at a Girls Grammar School in Essex. However, I am seriously upset with her attitude at the moment regarding what she thinks grades she should be achieving at the end of year 11. The, schools expectations are grade 7 and above for all subjects . The, other problem is because DD is in year 9 she obviously did not do her SATS at 11 so I have no predicted pathway to convince her. DD'2 has convinced herself, she will only be capable of at best 'all' grade 5's at end of year 11 despite having a decent IQ of 119. For, the record DD 1 IQ is 122 and she is expected to get between 6- 8 GCSE's at 9 and the others at 7/8.
Am I reasonable to think she is just being lazy, or is she suffering from a little bit of confidence, due to 'impostor' syndrome and her sisters likely results. I have looked at various sources online, which suggest that with a good study ethos her grades should not be hugely dissimilar to DD 1's. There, are also a couple of 'rebels' who are friends of hers playing up at school currently, for which the school believe is year 9 blues..

I have some questions..

why do you know her IQ?

how do you expect your daughter to predict her exam grades from exams she has not even yet practiced?

why are you piling so much pressure on her, is this about you or her?

why are you surprised that a teenager does not relish the thought of doing 2 hours homework each night?

why do you seem to think extra pressure will result in better exam results?

is this post a humble brag?

Assume she passed the 11+ to get into a grammar school, or am I hideously out of date? Anyway, please stop pressuring her at this stage, let the poor child actually start her GCSE courses before you start panicking about her grades 🙄 I type this as someone who had very little confidence as a teenager,had very low expectations of myself and if my parents had started pressuring me and calling me lazy, it would probably have pushed me over the edge

I appreciate things might be a bit different now (I’m 41) but I went to a grammar school and that seems like a lot of homework for a year 9! I barely remember doing any until a-level. I crammed a bit for my GCSEs I think.

Hopefully you are venting to some extent here and you are a bit more chilled with your daughter.

What motivates her? Does she have a type of career in mind? Would she be disappointed if she had to leave her current school (and presumably her friends) for a-level? Is there a subject she enjoys particularly? What are her extra curricular activities?

Both my girls are (were) at grammars and here’s the thing: it’s human nature to compare yourself to your direct cohort.

your DD will be surrounded by super bright girls and not realise they do not represent ‘normal’. She’ll place herself in the hierarchy based on what she sees. So she might feel average for her school which translates to a 5 in her mind (average).

your job is to give her a bit of perspective.

(also… the year 11 fear is real and she’ll ‘lock in’ then).

try not to worry or add to her stress levels. Grammar schools are pressure cooker places enough as it is!

There is no way a bright child needs to be doing two hours of homework a night in Y9to secure high grades. I have a typically lazy DS17 who had to be nagged to do SOME. I don’t nag now - if he needs nagging at A level he won’t succeed in HE. I’ve seen plenty of those cases in over 30 years teaching in HE.

Mine got 9s and 8s. 9s in all key subjects. He probably did 30 minutes at best in Y9.

You sound like you are spending a lot of time and energy on this issue. My advice would be to back off. If she’s attending well and is bright she does not need this level of monitoring.

What is she currently doing in her 1hr20? Is it homework only or also revision? If it's just homework, I'd ease off on the supervision a bit but warn her she will have to face whatever consequences come at school for not doing homework or not doing it very well.

It sounds like she is not too of the class (absolutely fine, especially at a grammar school) and resents the hard work. There are probably others who are flying through work and getting top grades, and it's demoralising.

I went to a grammar school, albeit some time ago now. No way did I do 2 hours a night of work. I revised very hard for my actual exams, and did some reasonable revision for mocks and end of year exams. I would ease off on her now. You may need to encourage her to get her head down more later on, but don't make her burn out too early. She may also benefit from some support in 'study skills' to maximise her effort.

Poor kid. All I’m getting from those numbers is pressure, pressure, pressure.

Maybe she’s trying to manage your expectations now because she acutely aware how disappointed you will be if she doesn’t do well? Because this really does sound like a you problem rather than a her problem.

It sounds like she’s either having a bit of a crisis of confidence, or knows how to push your buttons and is pushing back at the pressure put on her. It’s 2 years til GCSEs, and in all likelihood she will be absolutely fine.
For now I’d avoid talking to her her about grades and numbers and sixth form and tell her it’s fine if she gets 5s, that will still get her into further study (even if not at her current school) and when choosing options she should think about what she’ll most enjoy spending time learning over the next couple of years.
I’m not sure if this is helpful or not, but I got the highest possible grade for all my GCSEs but have not had a dazzling career - quite the opposite (I am also autistic which I’m sure doesn’t help). One of my kids is academic and hard-working, the other a happy coaster, but I suspect the coaster is going to do just fine in the future as his social skills are amazing, so I’m trying to let him be and let him find his own way (obviously while making sure he actually does his homework, as you’re doing). Out of the people I went to school with, most of the really rich and successful ones now were actually the popular rebels who didn’t do much work back then.

Why don't you stop putting her under ridiculous pressure about something that is two years away and let her enjoy learning? Your attitude is likely to drive her away from school work (and you).

Talk to her about her school work, support her by offering to visit places relevant to her geography and history and science topics, and forget about grades for another 18 months.

She's a child, who should be allowed to enjoy her childhood.

You are going to burn her out. She will either plough her GCSEs on purpose to get her own back, or she will have a nervous breakdown and her mental health will be fucked.

She is a child. She is not an extension of you, or just there for you to brag about. She is not her sister, she’s her own person and is allowed to be different.

Putting this much pressure on her when she is already telling you she can’t handle it is ridiculous. Two hours homework a night after a full day at school? Why on earth would anyone want to do that?

Hard for lots on here to grasp, but GCSEs aren’t that important. How many times in day to day life does anyone give a shit what your GCSE results were? They only matter to get you onto the next stage, once you’ve done your A-Levels/BTEC/apprenticeship, they are totally unimportant. Placing this much emphasis on them is crazy.

She doesn’t have a high IQ, and I’m not sure what difference that makes in a lot of subjects anyway.

Schools have got bogged down in statistics, predictions, analysis, flight paths etc etc. They have some use but often the tail is wagging the dog.

Looks like you have too.

If I'd set IQ tests for my children my middle one would have got the best score - that one bombed out of uni - twice.

In my teaching career we spent time discussing and aiming teaching at different types of learner; auditory, visual, kinesthetic etc. A bit of a trend 20 years ago. All true but most people are a mixture, not just of one type as we were told.

Sitting, somewhat bored, at the back of a meeting I came up with the 5 Ps. Factors that alter predictions and expectations made in Y7 to actual results at the end of Y11.

So in no particular order....

Parents
Pot
Peers
Puberty
Promiscuity

Oh my goodness - you need to calm down. She absolutely should be capable of those grades and if she got in to a selective grammar school, she'll probably get them. But you can't stand over her every step of the way - it's got to come primarily from her, especially in Sixth Form and beyond. If she has to scrape and struggle to get in to the Sixth Form at her school, she probably won't do very well once she's there!

FFS why is Mumsnet like this 🙄

Why are you even discussing predicted grades now? My daughter is also choosing her GCSE subjects now and we're focusing on what subjects she likes, she is good at and what areas she might potentially want to pursue beyond GCSE (the latter in very vague/loose terms). Not a mention if she might get a 5,6,7,8,9 in my house yet. That is way too early. The only mark we talk about is making sure she gets a 5 in maths (she absolutely hates maths) and why it's important to keep up with maths now even if she dislikes it.

My son is doing his GCSE this year. Year 10 was all about keeping up, making sure he didn't build up any gaps and then did a revision plan for the summer mocks in May making sure he revised and studied for the exams. These mocks results were then a baseline to focus on which areas to put more effort in and which areas to keep up with and some we deprioritised a bit (the latter based on good marks, fairly easy, not taking forward for A-level and not core subject like maths or English). That's when the discussion started for us which grade to aim for, what he needs to do to have a chance of achieving this etc

I think by focusing too much on the grades now not on best effort being enough as long as it's genuinely best effort you might put your daughter off. I would not even go near mentioning her sisters results let alone a suggestion that she should achieve similar grades- so unhealthy. She needs to focus on herself and what she can achieve. IQ doesn't come into it much: hard work, good prep and exam technique and good nerves under pressure is what will matter most.

You have said here that you have autism and dyslexia. Neurodivergence has a huge genetic and hereditary component, so why have you not considered that your daughter might be struggling, and therefore acting out/breaking down from masking while trying to achieve your high ambitions for her? My first move would be to take all the pressure off her now you can see cracks appearing, seek an assessment, and then decide how best to support her learning.

You need to be very careful that you don’t push her harder than she can cope with. GCSEs are not more important than a child’s wellbeing - they can be gained in a number of settings at the right time for any given child, as can A levels and degrees. Comparing her with her sister is abhorrent, as is your ‘cookie cutter’ analysis of her presumed abilities. This is a child with a personality, not a set of numbers and a pile of expectations. Regardless of whether or not she is neurodivergent, you should not be trying to force her into a box you’ve created for her. She is an individual, please treat her as such. Be proud of what she achieves, and of the person she is. Bring up a girl who is mentally well, knows her own mind, and is kind and caring, and you won’t go far wrong in life.

How was the IQ measured? Was it by the school via MidYIS or CAT4?

You're expecting 1.5 to 2 hours homework a night in year 9! Goodness that seems like a lot. Don't think my son did that much in year 11 - in fact he is not doing that much now in year 13.

just backdown on the pressure, give her a chance to breathe. She’s 14 or maybe even still 13, a child. She’s in a good school she knows she’s bright. Give her a chance. What else does she like doing? Music , instruments? Nurture her.

Firstly there were SAT tests in 2023 so it's not obvious she didn't take them. Secondly teachers assess pupils anyway so have a sense of a child's capabilities. Thirdly measures like test results and IQ are only rough indicators of performance and many other factors come into play: motivation, self belief, interest in the subject matter, personality, ability to focus, plan, retain information, work habits. A child is not a machine where information about them (IQ) will produce a predictable result.

Year 9 is also notorious for children being more rebellious, less inclined to take learning seriously etc. To you GCSEs are around the corner, to her they are years away.

You need to support and encourage her and be prepared to accept the results she gets, not insist on your imagined results you feel meet her IQ. Life won't end if not all her results are 7+

What a weird stealth boast thing to start a thread about!

Stop focusing on numbers. Start working on her confidence. Praise, reward, asking her daily something that went well or she is proud of. In affects you need to retrain her brain to look for the positives. Being a teenage girl is hard, comparison is cruel- whether that be her sister, her classmates, her friends. Look at her strengths and direct her focus to those. What does she want to do in the future? When you find a teen a goal they are more likely to see the work ethic needed as understandable and have meaning.
Talking about IQ, predicted grades, expectations, required grades for A Level- all abstract, overwhelming, scary and can make anyone shut down if you're giving her a target for 2 years time when she is losing confidence in her ability.

My son is year 9 - he hasn’t chosen subjects yet for GCSE. We haven’t discussed what grades he will get at GCSE. He’s bright hardworking and we encourage him to do his best. That’s all is needed for a year 9 child .

DD did not do sats (COVID). She scored well above average throughout primary and utterly resented the best estimates of her y6 teacher which resulted in high school estimating 7s-9s for all subjects. 3 years of not working exceeding then not achieving those expectations left her with no desire to study anything ever again.
She's now at college (schools here don't offer 6th forms) and living learning again and doing very well.

Don't push your daughter. Encourage her, build her confidence but don't judge her.

The comparisons with her sister and quoting where she is in the class and relative IQ and how many points did each grade is worrying me. All you need to do is encourage her to do her best and provide her a supportive environment to do her best.