To wonder what the future of Girlguiding is.

[Skippythebeercan]

I have run a Brownie unit for many years, and have seen the decline of Girlguding, we have lost so many units and leaders to the point locally our organisation is probably less than half the size it was 10 years ago and is going to shrink again with the loss of more leaders and therefore units imminently. There is a huge disconnect between national Girlguiding leadership and grass roots guiding.

I now wonder what the future holds for the organisation, I personally value the girl only space and think it is important for girls to have this. But, I can see that being lost. A friend suggests she thinks we may start to admit boys and loose our single sex status, I personally think that we may end up merging with the Scouts - both organisations have their differences but do share a founder and many fundamentals, plus I do think each organisation could learn something from the other.

I would be interested in other views on how the organisation may evolve - it may well disappear altogether - possibly sooner rather than later.

I am hoping this thread doesn't become about the trans issue, I appreciate it is divisive but there are other threads. Law suits and this very issue have certainly contributed to Girlguiding's significant image problem on both side of the argument, but there are plenty of other threads about this issue.

And therein lies the problem dominate girls seem to be catered to the most. Ours did none of the above- mostly very dull crafts and games in a hall. The girls that didn’t really fit in to that were not. catered for at all.

Beavers which my sons did was so much better and did a lot on that list.

There was also so much less bullying and unpleasant behaviour, more inclusivity, more varied less stereotypical activities and frankly a much healthier happier environment in Beavers, Cubs and Scouts. My husband volunteered. I think Brownies and Guides are hugely outdated.

Our scouting groups had male and female volunteers which helped hugely with the quality , feeling of inclusivity and variety of activities alongside the atmosphere. Our Brownies and Guides felt quite churchy but hopefully that has changed.

This is changing from the start of March. We will no longer pay for leaders and other volunteers. This means that units can have more leaders and hopefully spread the load which longer term may help recruitment.
If you're still interested it might be worth asking again

Its lack of energised leaders here, my DDs found the sessions quite uninspiring and numbers dwindled so then they combined the brownie and guides group, but inevitably the age range is then too large to be fun for the older ones.

It's a big time commitment for leaders and with all the paperwork now too it's changed from 30 years ago.

Which makes it more odd that they were so determined to break the law and their charitable objectives by admitting a group of boys and men, and then unlawfully expelling leaders who raised safeguarding and legal concerns.

In contrast in our area the beavers/cubs/scouts are thriving with long waiting lists. They go and do many more different activities.

This isn't correct. There is no charge for the DBS and safeguarding training for either units or individuals. In my county we do have to pay for the first aid training but that's not compulsory for every volunteer.

So you’re saying people running and volunteering will have less training.

it clearly is a ‘big hitter’ judging by the comments on this thread so perhaps it’s your experience that is more limited rather than those of a collection of people.

It’s also very dull,cliquy( adults and children)and not inclusive. I’m not sure many women would choose to volunteer in that environment. I wouldn’t.Scouts was far more welcoming and vibrant hence my husband volunteering, if I’d have the time I would have too but definitely not for brownies or guides.

On the increased SEND issue… my daughter is autistic, she did Rainbows and Brownies, she started Guides but couldn’t manage. But the unit were awesome at trying to include her. She was overwhelmed from school (ended up being out for 18 months).

If she had gone to GG when I was younger I don’t think she would have managed. So yes there probably is an increase in SEND, because now there is more understanding and expectation for those children to be included.

I know it’s hard, and not always possible to accommodate. But I will always be so grateful for the kindness and effort put in to try and include her.

Brownies and guides were awful as regards my autistic child and her other ND friends who moved to scouts. Really poor and a significant proportion of the girls attending were frankly vile ditto the staff who had zero knowledge,expertise or understanding. Interesting as on looking back cubs and scouts had far more autistic kids( my sons being two)and I can see why now. Guiding only wants a particular type of girl.

My Dd has just started guides having not done rainbows or brownies. She’s ND and has an EHCP in school, struggles with anxiety. Guides has been fantastic.
The amount of individual support she gets and the thought they put into making things accessible for her is great.
She’s also met some other quirky girls who are older and also speaking about LGBTQ stuff which is inspirational for my DD who has similar interests. It’s made her less worried about secondary school as she’ll know a few of the older girls.
I can’t praise it enough!

Our local scout group was so dull and cliquey most cubs left within a few weeks of moving up.

Indeed. Surely the same issues regarding trans children sharing accommodation apply to every organisation taking young people on overnight stays (Scouts as well as Girlguiding, youth clubs, schools, etc.).

Again this is down to individual leaders. I have several autistic girls in my unit and they seem to thrive. Perhaps because they have an autistic leader!

By law, where facilities or services are separated by sex, children who identify as trans must use the facilities associated with their sex. This includes sleeping arrangements. Not doing so or requiring other children to pretend they are the opposite sex is not only a breach of the equality act, it is also a huge breach of safeguarding.

I'm a mum of boys but would love to volunteer for a girls only space/group but won't volunteer for one that would allow boys in. The safeguarding issues are not something that can be avoided on a thread like this really. It's not about the trans issue so much as about the lack of safeguarding! Even if I wasn't a "terf" 🤷 I wouldn't be happy volunteering for and organisation that is happy to tell young girls that they have to welcome boys and men into their girls only spaces and pretend they are girls and women!

I agree with others that have said women probably also have less time and resources now to volunteer which is a real shame for local communities.

And having worked in paid roles with young children I can imagine the paperwork!

So when Scouts go on residentials/camps sleeping arrangements are separated by sex. When schools take children on residential, sleeping arrangements are separated by sex. So schools and Scouts face the same issues.

I often wonder if the Girls' Brigade have any problems with trans girls wanting to join? Would they accept them? (and vice versa for the Boys' Brigade)

I'm based in France and am a Cub Scout leader but know many people who were part of British Girl guiding Overseas and the way they cut them off with no warning was so completely shocking and appalling I think it alienated many, many people. They need a serious pr campaign with some very visible, strong leadership if they are to come back from that but I recognize that, with the trans debate, that is a big ask for a volunteer organisation.

If they want to accept some boys then they must become a mixed sex organisation and accept all boys. A female only organisation by law cannot accept boys.

I have twins. One does scouts, the other brownies. Sorry to say, but here at least, the scouts appear so much more fun. They get up to so many things. They are active and creative. They go on trips.They are great at getting new members. I get an update email every week on what they did. They complete badges in sessions.

The Brownie group doesn’t do much at all. My daughter never comes home with much to say. I never get any updates from leaders. They never put themselves out there to recruit, despite gradually losing members. They don’t do trips. They complete badges at home which I don’t have much time to do on top of homework and everything else.

If her Brownie unit closes, then I think she’ll have a much better time in the scouts.

Presumably you mean one is doing Brownies, the other is doing Cubs?

Why doesn't your daughter just join Cubs? Or does she actually enjoy Brownies, even if you think it's boring in comparison?