To wonder what the future of Girlguiding is.

[Skippythebeercan]

I have run a Brownie unit for many years, and have seen the decline of Girlguding, we have lost so many units and leaders to the point locally our organisation is probably less than half the size it was 10 years ago and is going to shrink again with the loss of more leaders and therefore units imminently. There is a huge disconnect between national Girlguiding leadership and grass roots guiding.

I now wonder what the future holds for the organisation, I personally value the girl only space and think it is important for girls to have this. But, I can see that being lost. A friend suggests she thinks we may start to admit boys and loose our single sex status, I personally think that we may end up merging with the Scouts - both organisations have their differences but do share a founder and many fundamentals, plus I do think each organisation could learn something from the other.

I would be interested in other views on how the organisation may evolve - it may well disappear altogether - possibly sooner rather than later.

I am hoping this thread doesn't become about the trans issue, I appreciate it is divisive but there are other threads. Law suits and this very issue have certainly contributed to Girlguiding's significant image problem on both side of the argument, but there are plenty of other threads about this issue.

It's sad

They need to find a way to attract new members. Are girls still allowed to join scouts?
Guides need to find a way to compete?

I know you don't want to make it about trans but the 1% and 1% have ruined it for the 98%

Parents don't want to send their kids to a political football- just focus on campfires and fun things

It’s interesting as our region has so much interest we have huge waiting lists, we could open another two units in my village alone if we had enough volunteer and venue availability. But finding leaders is always the challenge, it’s a big time commitment. Many of us run multiple units so they can continue.

As a leader, I wouldn’t continue as a mixed sex organisation as I don’t want to volunteer with boys and young men, that’s not where my passion is. I know my co-leaders feel the same, so I wonder how silently widespread that attitude is.

Also GG membership among young girls has been increasing quite rapidly in the last 5 years so I don’t think there is a lack of interest among young people nationally.

I know you don't want to make it about the trans issue but given what I've read and seen recently which involves that very issue, no girl of mine would be going within miles of it.

I left GGUk a few years ago and moved to Scouts.

It was mainly due to the trans issue and the exclusion (at the time) of non-binary or trans females. Our local Guide and Ranger unit was run by a group of young women who were a force to be reckoned with. They created a very open, inclusive and supportive group for 10-18 yo females who needed that space to explore the teens and adults they were becoming without judgement. Both my daughters thrived in the environment they made, as did their friends.

I stood down from my Scout role a few months ago. The excuse I gave was family issues (my Mum is unwell and needs a lot of care) but it was actually 2 things that tipped me over the edge - parental demands and expectations (from a tiny minority but enough to cause me huge amounts of stress) and a maritime incident report (unrelated to Scouts but another volunteer/charity organisation) that made me fearful that in the event of an incident in our Scout group, TSA would not have my back. I was not prepared to put my mental health (parent) or career/livelihood at risk over a volunteer role.

It makes me sad as I have brilliant friends in both organisations and miss the social aspect, but it was just too much. We regularly talk about how things are evolving in both organisations and sadly, most feel that HQ are in ivory towers issuing ever increasing demands on already thinly stretched volunteers.

I think it may be one more like the Woodcraft Folk which is really strong in certain areas of the country and nonexistent in others. I have considered training as a leader but I just don’t think I can do it - not for any political reason, just that youth leading is hard!

If I had a Brownie/Guide aged daughters right now I wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole.

Their slack attitude to the importance of girl only spaces and safeguarding mean I wouldn’t feel comfortable entrusting my daughters in their care.

I am also a leader in a thriving district/division. Units are full with waiting lists and our Guide units have the full age range from 10 to 14 with girls then staying on the join Rangers.
All local units offer a range of activities and get on well with the official programme (about half our time as recommended).

Our key USP is girl only so if we went mixed sex then there is no real point of choosing over scouts. Locally at least Guiding and Scouting offer very similar activities just packaged a bit differently. Guides has more focus (funnily enough) on empowerment of girls and building self confidence but we all do outdoor activities and camp. I think at the moment my son's scout group does more craft than us!

The "trans issue" is core to this, you can't just brush it aside. A charity founded for the benefit of girls has directly and indirectly harmed girls in pursuit of a men's rights ideology. That huge betrayal has damaged trust, credibility and the charity's reputation. It is an existential threat.

There would be zero benefit to the Scout Association in a "merger". If GG folds, Scouts will accept any former members who wish to join. That's it.

Don't worry. Most Guiders are totally against having boys. There is a small vocal majority championing male inclusion. You can spot them a mile off due to pins/lanyards etc.
HQ is a bit bonkers but don't actually lead local Guiding.

My DDs left. Lots of clique ground of girls, my DDs would include everyone, but this wasn’t controlled by the leader’s.
On another note, they had to complete badges and sections at home, which was a pain when they already get homework from school.

I think all the volunteer organisations will struggle. People just seem to have less time now.

In our Scout group, we have 6 leaders over 3 sections. I'm the youngest by 20 years... at 40yo. None of us children in the unit after my DD moved to Explorers. (although two now have grandchildren!)
Even just getting committee members is hard.

I agree it is very sad. But I also think there's a massive discrepancy within guiding. I know some groups that are very active and do loads and create lots of fantastic opportunities for girls who are part of that group, but then I know other groups where the leaders aren't as confident maybe, or as motivated and the sessions they run are very different and they struggle to retain members. Especially when they're running out of the same location as a thriving scouts group that's doing more on a regular basis or has more interactive sessions.

I think there's a real need for younger, motivated and trained leaders to step into the role but you look at things like col increases and a lot of the people I know who would be great at that are now working more hours or have taken on a second job so they have much less free time for volunteering. People are also working later so less help available for childcare for mothers with young kids who'd need babysat to allow them to go.

I think that irregardless of what stance you take, the challenges around what approach to take towards trans members has been badly handled and really leaders seem to have been left with a lack of guidance on how to approach this on the ground and that's not been good for anyone. I think a lot of adults watching that would be put off by that as ultimately you want to volunteer with an organisation that supports you in doing the work effectively even in difficult situations and I feel a lot of sympathy for the leaders who have felt either pushed out or left hanging to navigate dealing with difficult questions alone.

Girl guiding is so important, it gives such an important space for girls and young women and there's a fantastic scope there for research and impact on public policy as well. It would be sad to see that lost.

This is also why my children were kept well away, despite my always wanting them to be involved when I envisaged their future.

I think think very much depends on the area, my daughter volunteered as part of her Gold DofE and they had massive demand, and long waiting list.

I also think it's really important to differentiate that this issue hasn't been caused by trans kids attending so they really haven't ruined it for the 98%. It's been caused by an inadequate and messy organisational approach to trans children and their families wanting to attend and a very poorly footed back track.

I think it's fascinating how they managed to upset everybody with their handling of the trans issue. The 'trans people' by excluding them, and the girls by their obvious contempt at having to stick to their USP. I don't think they did themselves any favours.

The trans issue also displayed their complete me utter lack of understanding of safeguarding. Why would I trust my DD to an organisation that holds safeguarding in such contempt?

Please defind trans children?

If you mean girls who wish to be boys then yes, they should be included. Its ridiculously regressive to suggest gender non conforming girls dont have a place in girl guides.

If you mean including confused o gender non-conforming boys who wish they were girls then no, they deserve space and kindness from other boys.

No adult male, however he chooses to dress, should be given a role in girl guides. Particularly as we've seen the fetishistic socials of some senior male members.

You can't possibly separate the existential challenges Girl Guides faces from this issue as its a fundamental safeguarding breach proving the organisation is no longer fit for purpose.

I'm watching from another country and it breaks my heart. The distance between the National leadership and those at grassroots is clear for anyone with a social media account on any platform.

I'd also say that the amount of admin involved for the leaders is astonishing. Which doesn't help with recruiting. Equally not many parents understand how much work goes into running it all. Did anyone see the thread on here where a mum wanted the leader to organize a day trip somewhere and sent a leader on the thread into an absolute (and completely justified) meltdown?

I agree with every word of the OP.

I used to hold quite a senior region role, plus I was a Division Commissioner, Trainer and mentor, as well as leading three units myself (2 Guides and 1 Rainbows) I have led brownies in the past as well.
I was passionate about the girl only space, have led large events and residentials. My 3 now adult DDs were also trained as leaders (though only one is still in Guiding)
The trans issue never affected me on at a unit level.

The rot set in for me in 2023 when they threw out their overseas members. Mostly in British Military bases and British International Schools. Around 4000 members. Took annual subscriptions (about £50 per member) and then thrown out the following month. No refunds. They were told to join the Scouts.

This is when I resigned my senior roles because it was at this point GG lost it's claim on being inclusive. I could not in all honesty stand up in front of new and prospective volunteers and say GG was a good organisation when it really wasn't. I didn't feel safe myself, so I could no longer advocate for them.

Then they sold off the Activity centres. I can almost get behind the business decision of that, but it was handled appallingly.

All this was before the Trans issue really got its boots on.

Now, the bullying I see online of GC members is appalling.

I am now a unit helper in 1 Guide unit and I support some Rangers (14-18 year olds) remotely.
My Rainbows and other Guide unit closed.
I do have some guilt about the girls, but honestly, my passion for it has gone.
I know I am not alone.

If it was 2023 that was well into the trans grip on the organisation. But perhaps before the public was quite so aware.

Yes that's true really, I remember Pride in 2023 was all over GG celebrating how inclusive they were while they had just thrown out 1000s of members. It was so tone deaf.

Quite a lot of ignorance in this thread. Most units are operating waiting lists of over 10 girls (given around 20-30 in a unit, very healthy), at least in Hampshire. Girls are not being put off due to trans girls joining.

The lack of leaders is critical. Some units in my area are being run by 19 year olds, which is lovely in some ways but really not ideal as the age gap between 14 and 19 is just too small. Plenty of parents bemoan the closure of units, or girls going to Scouts, but refuse to get involved themselves.

I know the trans topic is a big hitter on MN, but a handful of kids across the country who, in all areas of their life, are living as girls, joining is not what is hurting the organisation, regardless of your own opinion on it.