To wonder what the future of Girlguiding is.

[Skippythebeercan]

I have run a Brownie unit for many years, and have seen the decline of Girlguding, we have lost so many units and leaders to the point locally our organisation is probably less than half the size it was 10 years ago and is going to shrink again with the loss of more leaders and therefore units imminently. There is a huge disconnect between national Girlguiding leadership and grass roots guiding.

I now wonder what the future holds for the organisation, I personally value the girl only space and think it is important for girls to have this. But, I can see that being lost. A friend suggests she thinks we may start to admit boys and loose our single sex status, I personally think that we may end up merging with the Scouts - both organisations have their differences but do share a founder and many fundamentals, plus I do think each organisation could learn something from the other.

I would be interested in other views on how the organisation may evolve - it may well disappear altogether - possibly sooner rather than later.

I am hoping this thread doesn't become about the trans issue, I appreciate it is divisive but there are other threads. Law suits and this very issue have certainly contributed to Girlguiding's significant image problem on both side of the argument, but there are plenty of other threads about this issue.

Our main issue locally is lack of volunteers, I was roped (back) in to stop a unit closing. I think HQ knows this, what with the census change for next year. I think they need figure out how to keep girls in the organisation, if 1-2 of my 20+ brownies became a leader in 10 years' time, it would keep the unit going, but there are fewer guides units (and only a couple of Rangers) in our division so long waiting lists to move up, I think it's harder to get them back in after they leave.

Fair point that was not clear on my part. I was referring specifically to children or volunteers for that matter born male and identifying as female who would be described by themselves or parents as trans or non binary.

I would expect there to be space for any child or volunteer born female irregardless of their gender identity.

I was a Guide who became a leader, and then left about 8 years ago largely due to the trans issue. I supported Girlguiding as a girl only space that had always held safety as paramount, and the utter failure of leadership to consult on this topic, or address it coherently, was what made me resign. It was a disgraceful whitewash. The ensuing bullying of anybody who failed to shut up and get in line was absolutely not an organisation I could be involved with anymore.

It's a shame because all our units here are full to bursting and many girls stay on waiting lists until they're too old, as there are just no spaces.

I see your point in this and from experience I think the majority of young people are very accommodating of sharing their space with trans identifying peers irregardless of their background or beliefs actually. I think however a lot of adults are looking at it very differently through a more complex lens, especially because I think a lot of leaders are specifically drawn to guiding because they believe provision of female only spaces is important for girls and young women to experience and are looking at the bigger picture in terms of organisation direction, safeguarding and all of the complexities that young people who are gender questioning can face and they are wondering where they'd fit with that. So I do think that issue is part of the lack of volunteers.

No, but it stops potential leaders joining.

I was a scout leader for many years, held a bunch of instruction certificates, qualified for nights away etc. (Desirable in the scouting world as these things take time and cash to do!)
I moved, took a break from scouting for a while and became interested in possibly volunteering again, but maybe with guides this time.

Absolutely not whilst they are more interested in virtue signalling than safeguarding.

So I just didn't.
One less qualified leader.
Due to an unpopular policy championed by a vocal minority

I have the time, energy, experience and some skills which would make me welcome as a guide leader. However, my passion would be in supporting and celebrating girl only spaces and I, quite frankly, couldn't be bothered with all the nonsense if a boy wanted to join.

So that's a no from me, even though my area needs leaders. There are plenty of other ways to volunteer my time.

So most of civic society is dead or dying, they just can't compete with screens

I would not let my daughter join guides because their batshit trans policy allowed male leaders who would prefer to be women to circumvent their safeguarding policies that applied to other males.

If you think this was only about preventing boys joining then you fundamentally don’t understand the full issues with GG trans policies.

I am a Scout leader and we have a huge issue with finding volunteer. Our group is full and we have a large waiting list but we are at risk of closing due to lack of leaders and I assume this is similar for guiding. It is such a shame as it can be a great experience for children and is something very different to school.

From the insta of the group trying to keep males in.
I believe the trans push is coming from the top down.

Agreed

Funny they talk about trans exclusion when their initial trans policy was to exclude any girls who identified as boys or non-binary.,,

I still don't quite understand your position, apologies. But to be clear on mine, there should be no space for any male in girl guiding. Whatever age the male is or how 'feminine' his personality or prescribed tastes. Girl guides is for girls.

My dd did Rainbows for several years, a couple different troops or whatever they’re called. The problem was, it was rubbish. It was mostly just girls running around screaming in the hall and sometimes they’d do some colouring. I had baby ds at the time so I often stuck around because I needed to feed him and I helped out a bit. It was complete chaos and they never seemed to actually do anything meaningful. It was just lots of mums standing around chatting. We did move and try others hoping there would be an improvement, but it was more of the same. Very cliquey, not very welcoming, I think she earned like 2 badges ever in a couple years.

We moved over to Cubs and eventually Scouts and it was a very different experience. Very welcoming and inclusive. So many more and varied activities. Night hikes and bushcraft and rock climbing and archery and photography, sleepovers and camps. Rainbows they never did anything except run around the hall other than once they went to the panto and they did a sleepover at a local private school. Northing outside, no instructors to come in and lead sessions. Just colouring pages and mums standing around chatting.

I expect they aren’t all as rubbish as the ones we tried, but if there are more systemic issues, I can see why parents are leaving and looking for better alternatives. We probably would have left ourselves given the current politics of girlguiding if we hadn’t already.

I'd imagine there will be one organisation called The Guides and Scouts of United Kingdom that will be a member of WOSM and WAGGGS. They will have a joint curriculum. There will be groups for boys, girls and mixed.

Quite a few scout organisations merged into one in the 1970's and since then new ones formed have had Guides and scouts in the same organisation.

I volunteer with Scouts, and could have written your post, except I'm still clinging on.

I'm SO fed up of a very small but noisy minority of parents who have failed to teach their children respect for others and are outraged when we, after many incidents, exclude them from a session or two. We try so hard to be inclusive and tolerant, we do individual behaviour plans for neurodiverse young people to help them follow rules and join in, but nothing is ever good enough, and any time out or similar is met with absolute outrage.

We've asked the parents of the more challenging young people to attend and be a 121 for their child, and then watched aghast as they turn a blind eye to anything their little precious does, no matter how disruptive.

It's an impossible situation.

I'm one of the overseas leaders that got thrown out. We were so upset at the way it was handled with no consultation or even much communication. The board are not interested in their own members, totally out of touch and all we got were the official statements.

Thankfully, girl scouts (US) allowed us to join and we kept almost all our members. All the years as a girl guide and then staying involved as a leader I was absolutely disgusted.

We have no problem attracting girl and have waiting lists for the units in my area. Attracting leaders (or ones who stay past a year or two!) is a problem. They either want something they can list as experience when applying for a PGCE/to work with children in some capacity, or they realise how much work is involved and they're back out the door. It doesn't help that a vast number of children these days seem to be absolutely feral.

I don't know how exactly it could be funded but I sometimes think being a pack leader/helper should be a paid job.
The main leader and possibly the second in command should be paid a wage.
They could run a different pack each evening (Monday to Friday).
It could essentially be a full time job if you add in planning time.
This would give packs/units more security and stability.

When I started teaching, loads of my colleagues ran cub/scout/brownie/guide packs in the evening. I don't know any teachers who do it now-the job is exhausting and people just don't have the capacity to commit to that now. I expect it's the same with lots of other jobs.

The issue with that is money. Groups barely break even without paying for leaders... and many parents can barely afford the fees as it is.

Guidrs/Scouts etc is one of the most affordable extra curricular activities.

That's the problem unfortunately.
Like I said I don't know how it would work 🙁

I'm so glad you found a new home where you are valued.
I am thoroughly ashamed of Girlguiding and how they treated you. It was appalling, and there were thousands of you, but it got a fraction of the coverage and outcry the astonishingly small comparable number of trans members got when they are thrown out. Speaks volumes about the current HQ ethos really, and their total lack of connection to the broader membership

BGO (and then BSO) meant a lot to my DDs when we were moving regularly around Europe. It was consistency. A child could go to any unit in the world and it was the SAME. Not different swimming messon programmes, or dance exams, or different sport set ups... it was one bit of consistency.

I'm glad you found something new for your girls. Boys Scouts of America Overseas is massive in the Military community as well (and hopefully Gurl Scouts, just not come across them)

now the trans topic is a big hitter on MN, but a handful of kids across the country who, in all areas of their life, are living as girls, joining is not what is hurting the organisation, regardless of your own opinion on it

@NoisyGreenNewt My husband previously thought trans issues got disproportionate interest, given there are so few trans people around. But he changed his tune when I explained that, if you allow TIM into female spaces, then all of those female spaces become mixed sex by default. And that impacts on all females, who don't know whether a male may walk in on them. Some people will be OK with that. Most aren't

I wouldn't have allowed my DD to go on overnight guide camps, knowing that (1) a bio male might be sharing her tent, (2) my DD and I wouldn't be consulted and (3) my DD would not have been empowered to speak up and object to this. It's a basic safeguarding failure

I have very fond memories of Brownies etc as a child. And hugely appreciate the time and effort that volunteers put in. But GG handled this whole issue very badly. And changed their policy reluctantly, with bad grace https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz7n921wyzvo