To wonder what the future of Girlguiding is.

[Skippythebeercan]

I have run a Brownie unit for many years, and have seen the decline of Girlguding, we have lost so many units and leaders to the point locally our organisation is probably less than half the size it was 10 years ago and is going to shrink again with the loss of more leaders and therefore units imminently. There is a huge disconnect between national Girlguiding leadership and grass roots guiding.

I now wonder what the future holds for the organisation, I personally value the girl only space and think it is important for girls to have this. But, I can see that being lost. A friend suggests she thinks we may start to admit boys and loose our single sex status, I personally think that we may end up merging with the Scouts - both organisations have their differences but do share a founder and many fundamentals, plus I do think each organisation could learn something from the other.

I would be interested in other views on how the organisation may evolve - it may well disappear altogether - possibly sooner rather than later.

I am hoping this thread doesn't become about the trans issue, I appreciate it is divisive but there are other threads. Law suits and this very issue have certainly contributed to Girlguiding's significant image problem on both side of the argument, but there are plenty of other threads about this issue.

I am a Ranger leader (14-18) and have a huge unit (nearly 30 and a waiting list)and I like to think that we provide fun, life skills and a space to be. We are badge heavy but still have time to chill - especially at that age with exams, sometimes they ask for a hot chocolate and board games evening. We do yearly camps, international trips and lots of other bits, whether it’s carol singing or a rugby taster session. We function on a low number of volunteers and are dependent on parent helpers but yes, it does get complicated with the safeguarding rules meaning that people do tend to have to commit.

I personally wouldn’t stay if it were to become mixed. I do it because I love working with girls and young women in a safe space.

I volunteered with brownies whilst my daughter was taking part, and I couldn’t believe how old fashioned and stuck in their ways the regional team was. We were- told off for ‘giving out badges like sweets, if a girl doesn’t do the work to earn them they should not get them’ told off for wearing trousers to a remembrance event, scolded for dropping glue on the carpet of the village hall despite our best efforts to clean up. I gave up- if I was being paid to do this I would have gone to HR!

Tbf dropping glue onto the carpet damages it so I would expect measures to be taken to ensure that didn’t happen, like using a mat or PVA glue only on a non-carpeted floor.

I'm not being defensive. You've misunderstood me. I just wondered why, if you think she'd have more fun at Beavers, you're sending her to Brownies. The answer "because her best friend goes " is perfectly legitimate. I just wondered.

Stonewall law, innit?

Coincidentally (or perhaps not), my Facebook feed today includes a pop up from "Guiders against trans exclusion". Guide leaders posting their commitment to be inclusive and "united under the uniform" etc

So, despite GG organisation reluctantly following the law, some of their guide leaders still don't want to. None of this would fill me with confidence

One of the things that really pisses me off about these threads is the assumption that crafts, kitchen skills, or even just games, are "less" than outdoor activities, fire building etc. Because they are the more stereotypical girly ones, and so definitely not as cool as what the kids in Scouts are up to!

Some kids really like crafts. Some kids really like fires. Neither is better than the other, nor is a group which may offer a bit more of one than the other, more or less worthy. We try to do a mixture of activities in my Brownies, and it's really important to recognise that the Girlguiding programme is not just about outdoors activities and camp skills - there are multiple different themes that we try to work on.

As an example, if you asked my Brownies what we did in yesterday's meeting, you might get a rather vague answer about talking to their friends. What they were actually doing was an activity learning about differences between facts and opinions, and how to listen to a different opinion and try to convince someone of the value of your view. They might not realise that's what they learned, but they were all doing it! And yes, it will count towards a badge at the end of the term. We get through plenty of badges.

Even with games, there is still value in being able to be silly with friends, trying new things, coming up with strategies, learning to win or lose graciously. I accept there may be some units where the programme is less structured, or there's too much reliance on a particular type of activity over another, but overall I still think there's a lot of value for girls in a good Girlguiding unit.

Oh absolutely - sorry I wasn’t at all saying they’re dicks or shouldn’t run on those numbers. I’ve been a parent helper for them and am happy to add to the numbers for crafts or walking. The point I was making was that in the area / culture of Girlguiding I was in we’d all have killed for those volunteer ratios and the parents would have (and did!) tell us that 2-3 adults was perfectly fine for 25 girls “just” to do games or crafts or whatever in our usual meeting place.

That group, GATE, is dodgy as all hell, and those at the top know about it and are fine with it.

I apologise then. I read as if you were saying just I think it’s boring but my daughter clearly doesn’t, so I must be wrong.

She does get envious of what her brother gets up to in beavers, as by comparison she does much less. She enjoys Brownies enough to keep going, and I want to keep her there because her school class is extremely boy heavy at 17 boys to 6 girls, and I want her to have more of a girls space. I also don’t want to deplete the unit’s numbers any more as I know they are on the verge of closing, which will be a real shame for the girls that do go.

@SockQueen yes I was thinking about this thread earlier.
We had a fantastic session cooking at guides last night, they absolutely loved it.
It wasn’t us training them to be housewives.
The actual task was working in a team to plan a dish. We gave them a list of basic ingredients to pick from and a cooking appliance eg microwave or hob or airfryer or oven. They needed to work out what equipment needed and who bringing what.
Last night they cooked their dish, working as a team. They needed to work together to share equipment and kitchen space.
They produced some fab edible dishes. Exactly sort of skills needed if they are away at uni in a few years.
Games. Lovely to see them having fun and running around playing, even the 13 yr olds. But they take turns to run games - pick a game, explain rules to group, shout out questions etc. They love the bit of responsibility and develop skills.
Guiding thriving in our village over 100 girls involved. But lots of experienced leaders willing to give time. We deliver a really varied programme and have waiting lists.

As soon as they had doubts as to what a girl actually was I swore I’d never take any risks by sending my own daughters. Sadly I fear it will become the Girlguys rather than Girlguides.

I am not in the UK but we have the same problems with Guiding.

The biggest seems to be general lack of volunteers, and the demands on volunteers seem more and more crazy. Masses of paperwork to do something simple.

I've also noticed that changes in the program aren't great, they are meant to be more inclusive but end up watering it down to the point where there is almost no defined outcomes or badgework - this may not be the case in the UK though.

I think it would be a shame if it was to disappear. I loved Brownies and Guides when I was growing up. Unfortunately my daughter has just left after two years at Guides. Although I completely appreciate the time the guide leaders gave all she did every week was crafts which she's done since primary school and she got bored. I also found the badge book so confusing so she never did anything at home. I found my old badge book from the 90s and it's so much better.

She's now at St John's Ambulance and it's so much more involved and she is learning valuable skills which she is enjoying.

Of course you can. It was behavioural and resulted in an incident that as a volunteer I found really upsetting. I followed all the procedures and quit, it was far too stressful.

I see, I'm sorry - that sounds really hard.. Volunteering is clearly very stressful potentially & there should be more support..

Odd...I get people volunteering less if they work or have young kids, but that wouldn't apply in this case...

Pp said more paperwork had come after Guides being blamed when things went wrong in cases of injuries. If excessive paperwork is putting people off, I hope there can be some kind of adjustment that works better while keeping people safe..

The paperwork was a full time job. Scouts had scout manager which we were not allowed to use.

Just after I left, it became permissible to use Google forms

Scouts have Scout Manager because they allow the personal data of children to be stored and processed by a third party. Girlguiding doesn't allow Guide Manager to be used to enter/store the personal data of children because their GDPR procedures state that children's data must only be stored in their own systems.

Scout Manager is a fab system (I have a DS who has been a Beaver, Cub, Scout, Explorer, and is now Network) but it does mean the most sensitive data in terms of GDPR (e.g. children's medical conditions) is stored in a third party's systems. It's a trade-off between a slick easy-to-use platform for leaders/parents and privacy. I'm not saying Scout/Guide manager is inherently unsafe but it isn't under the control of Scouts/Girlguiding.

As someone who works in data compliance, this is my field.

GG either didnt want to pay the costs and/or employ someone who could actually help them deliver compliant systems that work.

What they did have when I left (GO + paper) was a disgrace but it was free, all dependent on the volunteers themselves and made me very uneasy as it was my responsibility to handle the PII and left GG off the hook if I had (for example) accidently left a pack of consent forms on a train.

I dont know if Leaders were ever aware of the risks they were carrying by using paper forms.

This is sad to hear…….
Round here tho, the waiting lists are massive for rainbows, brownies and guides and the scouting units are the same too.
I’m on the “hut committee” and we have members from all the units (squirrels, beavers, cubs, scouts, rainbows, brownies, guides, explorers, venture scouts and trefoil group too.
All the groups have a waiting list system and are all well attended. The hut is busy every night and there is often weekend events on too.
The units all join together tho for an annual gang show, unit flag parade day as a big camp day with bbq, St George’s, remembrance, we do a big May fair and a Christmas market too, it’s very much a community event. We also have a Christmas concert so it’s busy!!

Maybe look at ways of joining forces with other units to make things a bit easier? I think also location plays a big part - we are in a village and people seem to “want their kids to be part of the scouting and guiding committee” but the regular getting together and hosting events is a definate way forward and they help to cover each other units for holidays/ sickness.

I hope you can make it work for you.

My friend also operates the district uniform shop as she has a big space she can store all the stuff and so she’s very much part of it and she has all the uniforms and stuff for all the units which also generates income for us too.

Yes, GO does leave a lot to be desired and I agree about the paper forms. GO has had various updates and consent forms can now be completed and stored in the system which is an improvement. To be fair though, any system is only as secure as the people accessing it, and the more people with access to parts of the system, the greater the risk of an opening for a cyber attack - take the recent attacks on, for example, M&S and the British Library.

(GDPR and compliance is not directly my area of expertise, but I do work in a related field)