Helping MIL but not in the way that’s clearly expected

[Enablinglocationiseasier]

MIL in poor health

SIL her regular help with medical stuff appts , shopping, lifts and household. SIL having OP so told us we need to ‘step up’.

We’ve arranged online shops , Ubers for appts and a cleaner . MIL got upset as couldn’t work out the app so we showed her. Apparently we are unkind and should just drive her ourselves.
We are paying for everything.

She also hates having a stranger in the house so is complaining about the cleaner.

AIBU to think she needs to just accept the help it may not be how she wants it but it meets all the needs she has expressed having ?

Oh please

and if it's a girl especially, trying to brainwash her that she has to put her life on hold for everybody else?

There are more important things for kids to do than wasting their time doing something that their parents already pay for someone else to do.

It's a much better and much more valuable lesson to show them to be reasonable, don't be blackmail and to stand their ground to unreasonable demands from childish people.

Help? of course, we all do. But no need to sacrifice their own time when there are better solutions already

Probably easier said than done but whatever it takes you need to express your feelings in a straightforward manner. I can recall having something of a similar situation when my late father lived at home before he went to a care home.
It did the trick for a period of time.

She perhaps wants the social interaction of going to the shops? My MiL loved to be taking to do her weekly shop (and whizzed round in one of the mobility baskets they provide) and it was a social thing as well as transactional. I wouldn't be happy with an unknown cleaner in my house either - I'd want to pick them myself, thanks.
You are doing all that she needs in a technocratic and managerial fashion i.e. you are looking at the problem as a problem to be solved by organising things e.g. online shopping (which takes longer than going to the shops if you don't order the same things every week!), a cleaner and a taxi to the doctor etc. but that's not what MiL needs or wants, she wants people she knows to care about her and visit her occasionally, not be 'managed' out of the way. Are you by any chance Keir Starmer? He thinks problems can be 'managed', too. That means not addressing the real issue, just arranging things so that the jigsaw doesn't fall off the table.

She is still of working age and frankly sounds like a bit of a wet wipe! Clearly SIL has pandered to her and then got fed up with it and now they both expect your DH (and you) to do the same. Maybe have a chat with her and explain you don’t have the time to personally escort her round the supermarket or take her to and from appointments. You are being helpful and she should be grateful, not expect you to drop everything because she’s acting like she’s 90.

She's only slightly older than me! I walk to the supermarket twice a week with a backpack and then walk back again will my shopping.
Sometimes I walk back the long way and include some hills to make it a harder work out.

Technocratic and managerial solutions. Why should DC not help gran out occasionally? Why not have love and caring at the centre of everyone's lives rather than managing people so we don't have to do that?
I love that you think spending time with gran is a waste of time, btw.

JoshLymanSwagger
I totally understand that, it's interminable and for such minor (although likely not to them) things.
The lightbulb issue l mentioned was that my mam rang my cousin one evening saying one of her lightbulbs had gone off in the living room, and wanted her to come (immediately, was the inference) to replace it (l was on a late shift at work).
My cousin said she wasn't able to, she had her grandchildren staying over and they were in bed, and her husband was out and he'd taken the car. But she'd go in the morning and sort it, and just to use one of the other lights in the room until then (five more working bulbs in total)
"But what if they all go? What will l do then?"
Totally missing the point that my cousin had her very young grandchildren asleep in the house, and she didn't have access to a vehicle. Which she repeated. And my mam said "Can you get a taxi?"
My cousin told me later that she'd had to be quite firm and say she couldn't leave the little ones alone in the house and she had no means of getting to my mam's house.
Which apparently didn't go down well. My mam complained to me about it next time l saw her, and said "Well you never come when l need things like that....."
I was at work. Twenty five miles away. In a police station.
I can just imagine my inspector's face if l'd asked to leave, and he asked why....

I think you or your DH need to disrupt your lives to visit MiL more often if her carer is unwell. She may be only 62 - which is young - but she has various issues that make life scary for her. Would it really be so bad to spend Sunday with her every week for a while, or pop by in the evening with DC - they can miss a few activities, surely?

She sounds like she needs mental health input. It also sounds like SIL panders to her anxiety most of the time, which though well meaning, will actually make MIL's anxiety worse.

Because they live at a distance, have a family, work, and don't have time to meet her needs for frequent social interaction or cater to her wish to control them by her learned helplessness.

They gave practical solutions to her need for groceries, transportation, and cleaning.

Oh please, indeed.
No brain-washing or putting lives on hold required to step up a little bit more in the situation the op describes. The MIL lives a mere 30 minutes away, not 3 hours. I’m sure things could be rescheduled/rearranged/lifts organised with others to enable her dh provide some practical and emotional support to his mother, whom he only manages to see once a month or so at the moment.

And since when would spending time with a grandparent be considered wasting time for a dc? Most people on here wish that grandparents would spend more time with their dc, or is that time only valuable when the grandparent is providing childcare?

Anyone with some compassion and emotional intelligence would recognise that the MIL needs some emotional support here, not just practical support that someone pays for.

People here are making lots of assumptions about what the MIL should be able to do, based entirely on her age. Which is, of course, ridiculous given that they don’t know her health care needs or level of life experience. She’s being decreed as selfish, needy, childish, blackmailing, weaponising incompetence etc, but the DH who is falling nicely into the category of male offspring who leaves the heavy lifting to his female sibling gets a free pass from most.

And as for help? Of course, we all do, sadly, no, very very many don’t help at all.

You are being so unreasonable and demanding.

You don't want a cleaner in your home? Fair enough, then clean it yourself, or find a friend who wants to do it for free. You can't, or don't want to? then accept the very reasonable help offered, paying for a professional cleaner is very generous.

online shopping (which takes longer than going to the shops if you don't order the same things every week!)
no one is stopping MIL to go by herself if she prefers? And if she's not doing anything, then she can learn to do it quicker herself? We all manage somehow, without asking our mothers or relative to do the shop for us.

that's not what MiL needs or wants
then she can organise or at least suggest what to do for what she needs or want, but respect what her son and DIL NEED and WANT themselves!

What a horrible and selfish person would expect everyone to drop their busy life and inconvenience themselves because she is being precious? I can't imagine a mother doing that to her own kids, I wouldn't. Our role is to support them, not the other way around.

Aren’t you marvellous? Do you also by any chance have all the health issues that this woman has?

MiL is immediate family. Cripes, people don't like families round here. Fortunate am I that I am surrounded by people who visit, phone, invite me to things and encourage me to be going out and doing things. I am recently widowed and older than OP's MiL and could survive on my own, but no-one will allow that to happen. They do inconvenience their lives, but then I also inconvenience my life for them. It's mutual.

62?!!! And can’t work out how to use an App? Seriously?

It seems like she’s been infantilised by the rest of the family.

If there’s more face to face support required, it’s up to DH, not OP.

I think the OP is taking a good approach. Maybe in addition her dh could visit more frequently while SIL is in hospital or recovering - but visiting MIL to provide social interaction, not doing chores or providing care.

MIL is only 62 and could therefore have many more years ahead, OP and her dh have to do what they reasonably think is sustainable.

My friend (who is herself) 62 got into a smilar role as your SIL, visiting her dp (in their 80s), helping with shopping, taking themto appointments, sorting out admin, making lunch etc. They, like many older people, didn't want strangers in the house and wouldn't accept any outside support, couldn't do things online (except buy things from Amazon) so banks etc had to be visited in person, or my friend had to do it for them.

Then my friend had a stroke and was in hospital. Everyone was worried about her parents. I gave them lifts to the hospital to visit my friend and over the course of serveral journeys it emerged that they now had someone coming in (organised through a charity) to do cleaning, laundry, change beds etc, (a woman that they really liked) and also a young man to help with physcial tasks such as cleaning out the greenhouse, and putting the Christmas decorations away in the attic. They were doing their food shopping online and had navigated both public transport and the use of taxis. Previously all that load would have been my friend's responsibility. I think actually her parents were enjoying some of their re-found independence, they seemed very cheerful about it all, whereas prviously they would often complain about my friend doing things in a rush and not spending enough time with them.

well after your updates I think that you are unreasonable even more.
If MIL has a carer officially she is not any 62y.o. and clearly has serious issues.
Your DH does very little for his mum personally so it’s a big gap for her from being cared for by her daughter. He needs to up his visits to once a week at least.
And I think your relationship with your MIL certainly clouds your judgement.

She's 62 and using learned incompetence to infer she needs loads of help

Yes, from the standpoint of experience that's what would worry me too

In fairness QOrion was right about upbringing/personality, etc. feeding into this. Certainly some 62 year olds are more like 82, but some of it can be sheer manipulation ("Ooooo I don't like having strangers!!" and so on)
As long as reasonable physical and mental capacity remains it's not always helpful for anyone if every last thing is done for them, no matter how much they'd enjoy it

As said earlier MIL's unlikely to get more able as time passes, so to my mind expectations need adjusting now, before a real crisis arrives

still different if they OFFER and organise themselves, and you are not demanding and throwing a tantrum to have your way.

The MIL expects her son and DIL to come and clean her house because she doesn't like the cleaner, how can that be reasonable on any level 😂

Yeah I assumed you were talking about an elderly lady and thought you sounded harsh initially. But 62!

What I said, technocratic and managerial, with no understanding for someone's else's needs or feelings. Fixing things is not throwing money at the job, it is interacting with people and finding out what they need (not what you think they need or think they ought to need/have).
Anyway, I thought it was only for a short time? SiL is ill?

A family supports its members. OP sounds uncaring and nasty tbh. Also a bit precious as her DC can't be disrupted from their activities whilst gran needs a few extra visits - which afaik is all it is - because SiL (main carer) is unwell.
I am reminded of an experiment with baby monkeys who were separated from their mothers and given a stimulation-free environment and 2 'mothers' one of which was metal and provided milk, the other cloth covered. The babies clung to the cloth mother except for brief interludes to feed from the metal mother, which met their physical needs. This cruel experiment (poor babies clung to the cloth mother desperately) showed that caring for someone is not just providing what they need in the way of nutrition, lifts, cleaning etc. it is helping with emotional needs. Cuddles are as important as food.
To put it another way, the OP's solutions are technocratic and managerial (metal mother with milk) but these 'solutions' do not solve the real problem: loneliness and the need to see people who care for you a bit more often than a couple of hours one Sunday a month (cloth mother).

You and your husband work (and this means some weekends) and your children have activities on a weekend too. Due to your own lives and schedules, it means you only see your MIL once a month, but your husband does call her.

Your SIL doesn't work or have children, so can spend much more time with your MIL. However, by telling your husband that he needs to 'step-up' suggests that your SIL might appreciate your husband taking on some of the responsibility for his Mum more regularly? If you're husband is only visiting once a month, he's doing nothing to help his Mum or take any responsibility off his sister.

Your husband is providing help, it's just not on the level that your MIL is used too. Yes, the help although useful, it isn't personal and yes, could quite easily come across as clinical and uncaring.

To be clear, helping your MIL isn't down to you, it's down to your husband. He needs to find time to see his Mum a little more, even if that's once during the week, as well as a monthly weekend visit. Her living 30 minutes away, isn't like she's living hours away.

62! I was expecting you to say nearly 90. I am 64 and OK, I'm in reasonably good health, but I need no help whatsoever with normal day to day stuff and I hope not to for decades to come. The vast majority of my contemporaries are the same, bad backs and all. My Mum and Dad were doing all that kind of thing for themselves until their late 80s. At the age of 62 my Dad was working full-time in spite of having some problems with hips, knees etc. My Mum at that age had recently retired from a full-time teaching job and was spending a day a week in a charity shop. She also went to stay with us or my brother and his wife every so often to help out with childcare. I may add she has had chronic anxiety all her life but she had to work to keep our family finances afloat so she got on with it.

How on earth did your MIL cope with the world of work if she can't work out a simple app? How bad are her health conditions for her to need a carer at 62?

It sounds like you feel you've gone above and beyond given that you have work commitments and a young child/children. And she lives 30mins away.

She's 62. But I guess what actual help she needs is dependant upon her ability to perform the normal activities of daily living. Wanting company is surplus to requirements given the circumstances. Although giving her a phone to check in now and again shouldn't be a big ask ... of your husband.

The RVS provide transport and support with hospital visits. They can help you check in and I think they may wait with you too.

https://www.royalvoluntaryservice.org.uk/our-services/getting-out-about/