Modern life doesn’t work

[DeluluTaylor]

I say this reading thread after thread of people trying to work around nigh impossible situations.
I am sitting here with chronic IBS from stress, trying to get the kids out of the door, to a school which can’t meet their need, to go to a job where I’m firefighting as nothing is fit for purpose anymore. Finding care homes for younger and younger people. People who want to work but can’t as they have learning disabilities. Yet in the 20th century an estimated 40-70% of people with LD were employed.
I have 38p in my bank account and all my money goes on paying for a big house that we’re in from 6.30pm 7 the next morning, with a huge garden which none of us have time to do anything in. That I sit in on my own when the kids go to see their father in a bedsit at weekends. Yet there are families down the road with three kids and two parents in one room.

The whole thing is crazy. If you were going to arrive here from another planet and looked at late stage capitalism you would say why do you live like this? Getting in debt to spend two weeks abroad rather than making changes to make the other 50 weeks off the year more bearable.

In more modern times (mid 60s) things were not as peachy as we might think. My mum became pregnant with her first baby( me) in 1964 and,as soon as she told her boss, she was given a letter with her leaving date. There was no option for returning to work and she didn't work again until I was 14 and my youngest brother ( 11) started at secondary school. She had to argue for that. My father felt that it reflected on his ability to feed the family and said " No wife of mine goes out to work". My MIL was only ever allowed to volunteer in the library at my husbands school so she could devote herself entirely to her husband and family.She was bored out of her large brain for many years. My best friend's mum worked for MI5 as a graduate. She wanted to marry. You had to leave your job as soon as you were married because MI5 required your total attention and that was now to be given to your husbandand inevitable children . My mum shopped every day when we were babies ( born 65, 66 and 68) because she didn't have a fridge ( that wasn't unusual). She washed using a twin tub and then put the clothes through a mangle.No disposable nappies just a piece of Terry towelling, 2 safety pins and plastic pants. One wee and the thing is soaked. She would tell you life wasn't a bowl of cherries.
Add to that the fact that if you got pregnant out of wedlock you would both be marched down to the church by the girls parents and it would be sorted. If the young man was no longer around you'd be sent to a mother and baby home and your baby would be adopted . No discussion , no options. My inlaws married because she was pregnant. My husband's late wife's parents married because she became pregnant. They'd only known each other a few weeks and had nothing in common. They're 90 and 85 now. They have lived a million years of misery together. Divorce was utterly shameful and a woman couldn't get a mortgage on her own so she was totally stuffed .Rape within marriage was possible. Your husband had rights to your body . When my mum was in hospital in Wales,giving birth to my brother, the woman next to her had had ger TWELFTH baby. The doctor offered to tie her tubes. Her husband had to sign the paperwork and he wouldn't agree. I wonder how many babies she ended up having

What is the definition of progress though? I dont feel humanity is progressing or has progressed?

All you say is correct. I remember my parents had an assortment of mis-matched furniture when I was a child - mostly given to them by parents or my father's patients (he was a doctor). I also remember how absolutely thrilled my mother was when they could at last afford a fitted carpet in the living room instead of a square of thin carpet in the middle of the room! That kind of joy has disappeared.

Yes, I agree. I didn't feel hard done by, sharing with my sisters or waiting to use the toilet! You just learn to give and take, I think.
Your point about pack animals - I can never understand people who put a little baby in a completely separate room from themselves.
I think we've got quite atomised.

This.

@Bargepole45 but why even bring Kenya into the conversation? Other European countries have issues too but there isn’t the same inequality, high childcare costs, high housing costs, etc.

A fall in standard of living literally means that you pay more for less

But the burden isn’t shared equally in the UK.

I don't know why you think someone voting Reform is facing reality any less than someone voting Labour or Conservative

Because Reform is a new party growing in popularity & apparently offering something different. It isn’t which is my point….

constantly handing out money to those that don't work. It isn't exactly helpful in a productivity crisis is it?

We can’t just abandon pensioners although the triple lock should absolutely be paused.

Pricelessadvice, your post is indeed! I was born in 1950, parents lived with DMS parents, I apparently slept in a drawer!! When I married in 1970,(naively got pregnant at 18) we lived in a couple of freezing rooms,shared bathroom. Then bought a caravan,a cold metal box not a fancy park home. My late DM always worked, cleaning jobs when I was little and I went with her. Late DF had a bicycle cycled 15 miles each way to work. First car in the 60s, no telephone,you walked to the village centre to the call box..my late DFS mum born in 1900, also worked fruit picker and the kids went to.

It was always thus, I'm afraid. There was no golden age when one parent stayed at home and week-ends were gloriously long, holidays by the sea the nicest thing to do etc.
There were always too many children in care homes, not to mention the ones living in dire poverty or just off the breadline. I was brought up in 'rooms' as a child and lived in what would now be called a HMO, with lots of families with 2 or 3 children all living in one room, sharing a kitchen and bathroom.
Schools perhaps met more needs, since there was still a emphasis on explicit teaching rather than learning through play, discovery learning etc and generally children could read and many (not all by a long chalk and certainly not as many as people think) read books.
But life was a struggle, holidays were few, food was adequate for most, not enough for a lot of people. My mother cleaned other people's houses so we children could stay on at school and get out of the poverty that afflicted my parents. We were lucky indeed to have parents that would do this. Most could not, or could not think beyond the day to day and the need for children to go out to work asap and contribute to the family income.
Life has only been 'nice' for a small proportion of people, those with enough money from inherited wealth or those lucky enough to go into professions i.e. the middle-classes; everyone else has always struggled. Capitalism may raise all boats, but most boats don't rise very far. Now, most people are much better off, really we are.

I think a lot of this is nonsense really.

Back in the days you refer to the things you mention were more expensive so naturally people had to go without and make do. I remember this with clothes before the days of Primark etc where a relatively cheap t-shirt used to be around £10 which would be the equivalent of around £25 now. Through necessity we had far less clothes than a teenager would have now. It wasn't because we were somehow morally superior.

When adjusted for inflation, furniture, foreign holidays, TVs etc are all significantly cheaper than they were in decades gone by. In contrast though, housing is more expensive hence people are going without in this area instead by choosing smaller homes or renting.

Imagine in the future if world cruises became cheaper and therefore more accessible to people. We could all hark back to 2026 where everyone 'went without' a world cruise and just made do with a lesser holiday because we were morally superior beings and not because the economic reality has changed.

Life is not a gift, it's an imposition.
Not mine, but spot on.

You just have to try and make life work for you, not what others think , or are doing.
I live a very simple way of life and never been happier.
No car, l ride a bike no big posh house, a modest 3 bed semi, no fancy holidays because l live amongst fields and forests and that's where I'm happiest.
No stress, no money worries.
I fought a long hard fight to get to where l am now, but it was worth it.
I let go of people, and old patterns and a mindset that wasnt helping me,
l learnt that subtraction was the answer for me, not breaking myself just to obtain more things l didn't need, that didn't make me happy.
I have two very decent young adult sons, one was home educated early teens, school didn't work for him at that stage so we found another direction that proved much more successful.
it takes a lot of strength, faith and courage to create a way of life that feels right for you. Too many people not willing to move out of so called comfort zone and take the risk.

I'd agree with a pp who said there was an element of choice. I work very pt wfh so I get plenty of time with my dcs and in my house. There's social pressure to develop a career and work more but I've not succumbed to it. DH works locally so is home shortly after the dcs are back from school, because we chose to live in a city centre terrace where he can walk back from the office, rather than buying a big detached house in the suburbs with a 1hr+ commute. We are fine financially because we do without many things that others deem essential (eg car, gym membership, cleaner).

Oh gawd, this is depressingly true 😫

And on the medieval peasant work hours - in no way would I want to be a medieval peasant but I've read that their hours in the fields varied massively across the year and according to need. One article says they had 5 hours of church-mandated breaks and worked about half the days in the year. Some working days were only a few hours long.
But of course that's on top of caring for their animals, weaving, possibly grinding their own flour, etc...

My SIL is 80. She was eldest of 5, the rest were boys. My FIL was considered an outlier in his wider family because his daughter stayed on at school, did A levels and went to university. He was told by his brothers that there was no need to educate a girl.

Agree. And even when you can afford to work part time and be there for your kids, in my experience it's not long before work gets "busy" and people start giving you a full time person's work and making comments about how part time doesn't work

I doubt pensioners were in the equation about benefits, because most people don't see the state pension in the same way as they see Universal Credit. But, no we can't abandon pensioners, who have, after all, mostly worked for their pensions all their lives. Or do we wish to go back to pre-WWI ,when old people worked till they dropped and ended up in the work house? (Lloyd-George introduced the first state pensions c.1904).

Some of the pressure too (and source of being unhappy) is 'keeping up with the Joneses' I think, something made so much worse by social media.

It's kinda like we expect to have what we are supposed to have, sold to us by marketing, or we feel a bit of a failure. I think I preferred it when I was younger, not just because things were a bit cheaper but because we had more of a content with what we have attitude.

But not everyone is in that situation OP

I chose not to marry, to maintain my career, to have one child when I knew I could support us on my own, because relying on others is just too much of a risk.
Now my ds is forecast good a'levels, my mortgage ends in the summer, my job is a 10 minute drive, and while not stunning, my pension should feed me and keep me warm

I've worked full time right the way through apart from one maternity leave. We all make choices and luck also plays a huge part.

I honestly believe we should teach people not to expect the 'happy ever after' of a nuclear family because it's simply not the reality for most.

Life has only been 'nice' for a small proportion of people, those with enough money from inherited wealth or those lucky enough to go into professions i.e. the middle-classes; everyone else has always struggled

Aren’t the middle classes shrinking though?

We decided to simplfy our lives when we got married and started trying for a child.

We're fortunate, don't get me wrong. We both worked in full time jobs and bought a small house we knew we could afford on one salary.

We wanted me to stay at home during pre school years. We cut our cloth accordingly, no holidays, no new cars, very few meals out and takeaways. The carefree life we had as a couple, both earning a good salary, changed enormously.

But it's been so rewarding. We really appreciate things a lot more now, our child had 5 years at home, we spend lots of time together and honestly, we're very relaxed and happy.

I know it's not as simple as I'm making it sound and our situation is unique and not possible for many. But from my experience, living a simpler life has been more than worth it.

Well I bought mine 5 years ago, not in the 90s. I was in my early 40s. Like many people, I rented for years, the time to slowly build a deposit, and increase my income. I'm not saying its easy though, just that expecting to be able to buy a house in central London at 22 is ludicrous.

Something that I think has impacted our generation is the age when we start a family. We tend to have children later on in life because of the high cost of buying a house and establishing a career meaning we are often in your 30s when children come along, it then means as women we are raising teens in our 40/50s as well as working fulltime to cover bills and we’re knackered. Then our children have their own children, and they too have children later on in life due to the cost of living, and we are probably in our 60s by now and we look after our grandchildren as a way to help with childcare costs and we’re still knackered then. And we may have our own parents to look after too.

I think also the onset of technology means it is harder to switch off. When I started working many moons ago, I would finish work, commute home and forget about work because there wasn’t a way for me to work remotely. If my boss needed me he would ring me on my house phone (and in all the years I worked then, he contacted me at home once!). Now we get home and still check emails and Teams messages meaning it is harder to just focus on home matters.

This narrative is part of the problem though. Pensioners do receive a lot of benefits, it’s not a question of whether they deserve it or not, it’s affording it. And most haven’t paid enough tax for a state pension & the NHS, you would have to be a high earner for decades (the majority aren’t). The ponzi payment model is the problem as we are no longer a pyramid. We already have more over 65s than under 15s, it is not sustainable.

Or do we wish to go back to pre-WWI ,when old people worked till they dropped and ended up in the work house?

What do you think will happen to today’s young when they are old?!

Kenya is relevant because it shows how things we take for granted can be radically different. Obviously lots of people are referencing the past and how things have changed but it's also true that people on this planet right now are living much harder lives than us where basic essentials are a much larger percentage of their income.

Your comparison to other European countries is interesting. We know that the countries we are most similar to are experiencing very similar issues so I wonder who you are referring to? If it's the Scandinavian countries then we are simply not comparable to most of them. Denmark has a 34% higher GDP per capita than us and Norway has a 79% higher GDP per capita. They are far richer than us and therefore can afford to do things that we simply can't afford to do. They also have fundamentally different cultures and attitudes to important values such as trust that enables them to adopt policies that simply wouldn't work here.

Nobody said abandon pensioners. It's simply a fact though that the more you incentivise people to work the more they are likely to do it. Lots of people, like OP, find work difficult and stressful. Most would choose not to work if there were no financial implications. If you want to improve productivity you need to get more people working and those people working more efficiently and effectively. This isn't really what most people would consider fun. This is why expectations management is often at the heart of everything. We should expect to work difficult jobs for long hours to pay our way. This should be the norm. Yes, it's disappointing and we all wish we could somehow enjoy all the nice things without doing this but it simply isn't realistic for the vast majority of us.