In thinking morbidly obese women should not be trying to concieve?

[anotherfatty]

I think it is incredibly selfish and feel that if they cannot (or will not) lose weight they should not have a baby. Much like smokers, alcoholics and drug users - if they cannot make an effort to be healthy for a pregnancy things will not improve once the baby is born.

I was thinking more along the lines of the risk to the womans health

another fatty, are you some sort of idiot? What is it that offends you exactly?

"Twelvelegs I know it's possible but is it reasonable behaviour for them to have babies?. I am obese (not morbidly) and am desperate to lose weight in order to conceive. I would not inflict my health problems on another baby and I think that women who do are selfiah - so flame me!
"

you then go on to say "Ellideb - because morbid obesity and drug addiction are both self inflicted health issues. "

So, whats your problem then? stop stuffing cream cakes down your ignorant face and lose weight - oh, hang on, don't tell me - you've tried, but its really hard!

So, you don't want to pass on your health problems to another baby? What health problems do you have?? Are you saying that being morbidly obese or obese (still dangerous) is hereditary and you don't want to pass this on to your child? Or are you saying that it is self inflicted and you don't want to pass on your lack of self control and greed to your child?

Everyone knows there is a genetic element to obesity. Its not rocket science, it blatantly runs in families. Scientists are looking for "fat genes", thats not that tough a concept really is it. There are plenty of genes that produce proteins involved with metabolism and fat storage, so for me, its not exactly ground breaking stuff. There must also a neuronal aspect to this too, behavioural might be a better word. The ability to recognise that one is full is perturbed in prada willii syndrome - ok, so this is an extreme example.

So, assuming you are an intelligent woman , i can only assume that you a)consider yourself less than perfect along with all of us other fatties and b) you want to have perfect children running around. Does this not ring a bell with anyone then? Didnt hitler only want healthy little blonde blue eyed children??

So, what is it that you are saying? Only most of your posts are simply antagonistic, self contradictory and ill-informed.

No one here has said that it is healthy to be obese. However it is possible to not be a perfect size 10 and still be very healthy. I have always been a big girl, im not very fit and healthy at the moment, and the only one who can fix that is me. However, ive never been below a size 18 up top, (yes, im blessed i know that ) and usually about a 16 below, im a bit more than that now - but before i had DD i was quite heavy and big, but i was at the gym every day, ate a reasonable diet and did regular fitness tests at the gym, which i used to get around 90% and be congratulated on being super fit. So, that blows that argument out of the water.

Of course if you are TTC you should try to be the healthiest you possibly can be. By eating well and exercising. But you tell me, how is you going on a starvation diet, putting your body under all sorts of metabolic stress, creating a false diabetic state, healthy???

I think you have some personal image problems going on here and you need to address them. But find a way to word them in a grown up and considered manner and you never know, you might even be offered some support.

Bragged? Where?

Evidence and clarity would help your argument.

Come on, I'm getting impatient now

I think the OP has a point in that when planning a pregnancy ideally it's best to be in optimum physical health, I myself gave up drinking, smoking etc..(never went back to smoking and drink only moderately now) about 6 months before trying which was very hard but I had my future children's health in mind and that's what spurred me on.

There will always be the odd skinny unhealthy one that the obese like to cite as a example, but putting your heart through the rigours of childbirth when it is already under the severe strain of supporting a morbidly obese body (BMI 40+) seems like madness to me. Add to that the likelihood of passing over-eating/unhealthy habits on to your child and consequently watching them struggling with their weight, not to mention your reduced life expectancy, then that does seem quite selfish IMO.

Funny that most if not all of the morbidly obese people that replied are all incredibly fit, walk for miles every day, never stop etc...and absolutely none of them have obese kids . So is everyone on here an exception to the rule? or is there a wee bit of porky-pie telling/wishful thinking going on instead?

Thanks Empirica, I think there is a tendency towards denial with many obese and morbidly obese people. I do believe that some are suseptable to weight gain genetically but are still over eating and under exercising (as are probably the majority of people in the western world - but some can get away with it). I still maintain it is selfish to become a parent (intentionally - I know accidents happen) when you are so unhealthy - and however much exercise, healthy diet they eat etc. a morbidly obese person is unhealthy.

im morbidly obese and look at my profile to see my DCs, they are very slim and eat very healthily.

gosh, anotherfatty, are you new to mumsnet? I think most loving parents want to do the best they can for their children, and certainly mumsnet has been witness to some of them struggling to lose weight for health reasons.
But put off having babies? no. dont do it - you dont know what the future may hold, and you may never reach a state of perfection.

I really like the intelligent debates that we have on MN, where all sides of the argument are put forward with passion. I enjoy reading other peoples opinions. I do not however enjoy reading arguments that are ill thought out, poorly articulated and downright hurtful to a significant number of people. Especially when it is blatant bullshit.

And then you say, its only selfish if these people get pregnant on purpose - if its a mistake, then its OK - ROTFL sorry but you need to get back under your bridge now Mr Troll

So tell me then, a morbidly obese person then, who eats well, tries to exercise and diet is unhealthy and therefore doesnt deserve a child. This person then must be genetically predisposed to obesity and would risk producing more obese offspring . What, then, about people who have a chance of carrying genes that predispose disability or carry disability - should these people not reproduce either??

Obviously that would be a cruel and stupid comment..............

well said LEM

It may well be selfish to become a parent full stop. Next you will proclaim it is selfish for poor people or starving foreigners to have kids. You are missing the point about procreation completley.

I wouldn't get upset about it LEM, or anyone - the stupidity on show in the OP is enough to make it funny. Such idiot opinions only have purchase on firums such as this. In RL people who know better would just politiely smile and get the hell away

Even people genetically predisposed to obesity can achieve a healthy weight if they are really motivated to.

Can they? Really? and you KNOW this do you? i would love to know how you qualify yourself to make all of these statements.

MT,, im not upset, im astounded

Whereas people predisposed to genetic conditions have no control over this so of course cannot be 'selfish' for not doing something about it before conception. It's the same with smokers, alcoholics and drug users - these are lifestyle choices which make you unhealthy and therefore you are selfish if you continue to indulge them whilst trying to concieve.

Most medical professionals would advise a morbidly obese woman to lose weight before conception - therefore if she does not or 'cannot' she is putting her need for a child over the welfare of that child and is selfish.

I don't think anyone is saying morbidly obese people 'don't deserve children'. It's more about giving them the best start you can, doing something that may be difficult but will benefit you both in the long-term, a bit like giving up smoking.

Some of the reactions to the OP are very defensive,'anotherfatty' is entitled to her opinion isn't she? Wouldn't all this intelligent debate be a bit boring if we all thought the same way?

Comparing obesity to disability is missing the point somewhat. Lucyellensmum, if you could prevent your future unborn child from having a disability by changing your diet, say reducing fat and sugar for example would you do it? Perhaps you would think those that didn't were being selfish?If, however, you would do it then you and the op are not so different.

Empirica, i do totally agree that a woman should try and be as healthy as absolutely possible before having a child. However, there is a big danger here of confusing what is healthy. Clearly someone with a BMI over 40 is putting a lot of strain on their body becoming pregnant and is unadvisable. But UNREASONABLE. It is all a question of how the OP worded her original argument. It would also be equally unhealthy for women to go on crash diets and unhealthy weight loss diets in order to be the right size to concieve. Many posters have pointed out that you can be big and healthy, it very much depends on the individual.

As to passing obesity on, then if there is a genetic pre disposition, then the mother or father for that matter may well pass a defective gene on. Just because this gene has not been identified, or these genes as there is clearly going to be more than one culprit, then it is exactly the same thing, if you take the view of the OP. She is saying, if you are morbidly obese you shouldnt ttc, backing this up by saying there is a strong chance the child will be morbidly obese too. She is quite right. However, it would never be considered a worthy arugment to state that a person with a disability, or carrying a disability because there is a chance it might be passed on. Im not questioning the extremes here. But im questioning the OPs logic.

Everyone here agrees, if you are TTC be as healthy as you possibly can. But you have a weight problem that you battle to overcome, why should this preclude you from having a child?

As a mum who has had issues with her weight and body image most of her adult life do enlighten me how I should motivate myself to achieve a healthy weight. Because if you are the fountain of knowledge you think you are you could make yourself a fortune. I'm not morbidly obese I just don't look like Alex Curran in the dm pics and would love a 'jelly belly' like hers.
Of course in an ideal world maybe it would be better if we were all in optimum health, financially secure, in a stable loving relationship, etc before we have children but there is no such thing as an ideal world. What's ideal for one would not be for another anyway and who are we to judge others any way?
Most medical professionals would advise anyone who was morbidly obese to try and lose weight but as the multi million pound dieting industry proves, it's easier said than done.

From the point of view of obesity being increasing the likely hood of a child having a disability, i'm not aware of this? Im not sure what you mean? If a person is genetically predisposed to obesity, then there is a chance this predisposition will be passed on to the child. It doesnt matter if the mother diets herself down to a size 10, if the faulty gene is there, it is just as likely to be passed on. That is one thing you cannot change.

"As to passing obesity on, then if there is a genetic pre disposition, then the mother or father for that matter may well pass a defective gene on."
There is no such thing as a gene that can make you fat, there are many many slim people that have the so called fat gene, fat people are mostly that way because they eat unheathily and too many calories for the amount they burn off.

I am morbidly obese and expecting DC no2 on Thursday. However I think I have a healthy lifestyle,I am stiull running a B&B which includes cleaning, ironing, cooking breakfasts, up until last week I was still gardening. In earlier pregnancy was walking the dog every day for an hour and swam, will start again after birth. We don't have chocolate, crisps or bisucits in the house, this is not to stop us eating them we just don' want to eat them. We don't live near any takeaways and can't be bothered to drive so probably have one of those every 2 months if that. Have had no problems in either prgnancy, very low BP all my bloods have been fine. My DD is lovely, her favourite food is fruit, occasionally she will have a packet of crisps or Nutella on toast but not often, she has a very active lifestyle as do we. So call me selfish but quite frankly I don't give a shit.

Kiddiz, I am obese myself so I am unable to give you any tips! I feel it would be selfish of me at the current time to try to concieve another child. Do not like the term 'fauly gene' either but I reckon you can inherit a tendency to gain weight (would not call this 'a fauly gene' however). I still believe obesity to mainly down to too much food (portion size being more relevant than food types) and a sedentary lifestyle.

Not one person has admitted on this thread that they are obese because they eat too much and do not take enough exercise. At least I am not in denial or trying to convince myself I am fat because of a faulty gene. I am determined to lose weight before trying for another baby and if I am lucky enough to concieve again at least I will know I tried my best to give my child a good start.

Sorry, twelve legs i have to disagree with you there. There are indeed genes that have been identified that when faulty, could well predispose an individual to be fat. Just because these genes have not been identified yet does not mean they are not out there. Of course i think it is incorrect to label a "fat gene" after all, wouldn't we love to know what that was and then work on a way to put it right. Taking away the genetics you only have to look at the trend for obesity to run in families. Of course this is where the nature v nurture argument comes into play. One could argue that a "fat" family are that way because of a genetic predisposition. It could also be that they are that way because they don't eat healthily and this lack of "food intelligence" for want of a better word, is carried through the family as they are borught up on macdonalds and burger king. There could even be an argument that even the behaviour of this family is influenced by genetics at some point. Again, nature v nutrure?

I am quite big, about a size 20, it is not a healthy weight for me and i need to lose some weight. That is a question of motivation. However, my healthy weight is about a size 16, that is where i could happily sit. If i tried to go lower i would probably constantly dieting and that actually isn't healthy. Eating a totally healthy diet IS and i reckon it would get me to a size 16 and that is where i would stay.

I think the reason there has been a lot of defensive posts here is that we are all so hung up about body image. It is a self esteem issue as well as a healthy one.

I do look around and wonder why there are blatantly lots more obese people around these days? Especially as it seems most mums are obsessed with organic this than and the other - hmmmm, i think there are a lot of mac donalds being swept through the back door. Why would anyone want to eat that??