Mixed sex changing rooms?

[Whatschanged]

Has something changed in society around changing/fitting rooms in shops or have I just had two unusual incidents? Or am I being ridiculous?!

A couple of weeks ago I was in the adult men’s section of Next with my 13 year old son, he needed to try on some jeans, a very tall but slim lad, so definitely doesn’t fit in the children’s section anymore. Men’s is upstairs with the homeware, women’s and kids downstairs, both floors have changing rooms. He went in to try them on and I waited completely outside by the lifts. While I was waiting an adult woman walked in the changing rooms to try something on, I was quite surprised, and gave her an odd look (very British of me, sorry) but she blanked me. I thought, well it’s not the end of the world but I’d be a bit more shocked at a grown man going in the changing room downstairs next to the women's clothes when my 13 year old daughter was in their alone (I don't have daughters though).

This weekend I was in M&S, women’s and children’s clothing downstairs, and there is a fitting room, women’s underwear and men’s clothing and cafe upstairs, there is a fitting room by the men’s clothes and a fitting room my the women’s underwear. I went in the fitting rooms by the women’s underwear to try some bras on, and there was a lady loitering around the cubicles, when I got in I heard what I presume was a little boys voice, perhaps about 6 years old and a grown mans voice (could have been an older teenager or a fully grown man, I never saw them, but a broken, older mans voice). The ‘man’ was helping the ‘boy’ with the clothes and the woman was outside the cubicle asking how it was going etc. I was really surprised, why wasn’t the grown man with the boy in the men’s changing room? Or why wasn’t the woman (presume mum) in there with him?! I was there with my boobs out, what if I wanted a fitting? M&S has lockable doors but Next it’s just curtains.

So I just thought perhaps something has changed and now people just wonder in whatever fitting room they fancy, or is this a bit weird?

YANBU – men should go in men’s, women in women’s, children that require assistance should go in whatever changing room matches the adult.

YABU – stop being so precious, you’re normally in individual locked cubicles anyway so what on earth does it matter!

Yes a man

And image(s) which will prove that "somebody" was engaged in non-contact sex abuse.

It was of a private area that he and others had access to.

It would appear he failed to obtain a image release form from other individuals who used that space.

So the Scottish police began a search of the whole building.

That included any public space and any semi-private and any private space in the building. Eg changing rooms and toilets and all the areas that were used to provide childcare.

That type of recording is recognised as a non-contact sex crime.

(Allowing any man into what should be a women only single sex space adds to the risk of harm coming to the women who use the space.)

Apologies

This idea that 0.1 of men are somehow no longer men and no longer a risk is deluded and completely proven incorrect.

They just don't give a shit who get's hurt along the way. When evn Katie Dolotowski's victims weren't enough to make them understand the risks, that told me all I need to know about women who turn a blind eye to the risk to women. These were children who were harmed FFS.

Dont misquote

AnSolas · Today 13:11
It is women who support sex crimes against women.

Sorry, right you are, I somehow managed to read that and then erase it from my brain 🤦‍♀️

Men were buying ladies underwear and writing reviews of themselves wearing it. I think pictures may have been involved but am not sure.

Clearly getting off on the whole thing but M&S allowed the reviews to stand. They may even still be there.

Which part of ignoring that there is an additional risk by removing safeguarding is funny?

Wondering if individual stores have their own policy as we visited next before Christmas and I was told I couldn’t enter the men’s changing rooms to look at what my teen was trying on and that he had to come out each time, even though he was the only person in there. They had the individual changing cubicles with locked doors, I wasn’t even allowed in the aisle I had to stand on the shop floor.
Teen wasn’t impressed he had to keep leaving the changing room each time to stand on the shop floor in front of others while we debated the item he had on.

You are making some assumptions

Which part of ignoring that there is an additional risk by removing safeguarding is funny?

Moving to the personal blame game as a deflection stage.

A lot of people don’t understand the concept of basic safeguarding unfortunately. Are you likely to be attacked in a M&S changing room by a man (trans identifying or not) in your lifetime? Statistically probably not. You’re also (again statistically) unlikely to get burgled too but people still lock doors, have ring doorbells etc etc. Safeguarding measures and single sex spaces exist for a reason.

Men rape anyway why make it harder.

Bonus point
Strong male hero will be deterred by sign

I don’t think this is anything new. 🤷🏻‍♀️ You’re in a cubicle. I haven’t seen a ladies changing room in a shop in a decade. Our leisure centre has been mixed sex for probably 20 years. Everyone thinks it’s some gender war and the left is trying to indoctrinate us all. 😂 It’s because we live in towns where space is a premium. Why build 2 changing rooms when you can build one and have more sales space for making money? Or offering a HIIT suite for extra classes? It’s capitalism dressed up as anti-wokeness. 🙄

The argument about male members of staff is pathetic isn’t it. It’s a bit like saying we allow male members of staff in primary schools to be around little girls and boys, so what difference does it make if we then let random members of the public wander around the school?

In the UK single sex spaces are only lawful provision when they are single sex spaces.

That some individuals
• ignored this or
• were told that they could ignore this or
• engaged in a misinformation campaign to ignore this or
• used any other excuse
did not make the space a single space with just a small number of the other sex space.

Or a man could use a mixed sex changing cubicle, leave a recording device in there, and broadcast the images on the web. And so on. Most of us are quite innocent/naïve about the predilections of some men, and the lengths they'll go to to feed their fetishes.

The current situation s a result of extremist activists for trans rights, which should apparently trump anyone else's rights. Pop over to FWR to have it explained for you (gently) by the wonderful women there.

if they are completely deserted and you are alone, it makes no difference either if a man decides to come in and assault you - if a creep decide to commit a sexual offense, pretty sure a little sign "women changing room" won't be much of a deterrent

@ThatCraftySquid the problem is that the extremist transactivists have broken down the usual (and quite effective) general & accepted social practices that kept single-sex spaces single-sex and comparatively safe. We all participated in making sure that "creeps" didn't lurk around or enter women's spaces.

Sorry this doesn’t make any sense to me. The leisure centre I worked in had 3 changing rooms - male, female and disabled. The latter was one big open space, the other two were rooms full of cubicles with a group shower in each. Apparently the male and female is going to be knocked into one. The cubicle doors do not reach the ground. You can sluice or hose water around easily into multiple cubicles at once.

except it's not that at all and you know it.

It's as ridiculously naive to imagine a "women only" changing area is any safer than MN forum is a "safe bubble" - unless they are as strict as M&S lingerie sections are (and they are... the staff in at least some of the shops are VERY strict). I was in one just last weekend! Men can stay on the sofa at the front, they are not pushing past the front desk

Most places won't bat an eyelid if a man helps a woman walking to the changing room, walk his daughter, grab some clothes and walk in to bring them to his partner and so on.

Point is, if your hypothetical man wants to put a camera in a changing room, he will easily.

Banning random strangers from a school makes sense. Imaginary threats preventing mixed sex changing room with private cubicles do not.

Allowing men even ones who dont want to be called men into what should be women only single sex spaces is allowing an additional risk be forced on the women who use theses spaces.

Removing women only single sex spaces as a solution to allow men to have mixed sex spaces mislabled as women only single sex spaces is allowing an additional risk be forced on the women who use the spaces.

Removing women only single sex spaces as a solution to allow men to have mixed sex spaces is allowing an additional risk be forced on the women who end up with no option other than to either use the mixed sex spaces or self exclude.

Out of interest do you think that the 10 year old girl that Katie Dolowski sexuallly assaulted in a single sex toilet in a Morrison's in Scotland imagined her sexual assault?

Or do you think this could have been prevented if ALL men stayed out?

Or is it OK that some girls are sexually assaulted because you don't see the importance of single sex spaces for safety and dignity?

This will sound contradictory and spark a lot of 'what about' but if someone looks, presents and dresses in a female way, I'm happy for them to use (what were once) female only changing areas, if you look and present male, even if you're wearing a dress, even if you are trying on clothes from the women's section, I think you should use the male changing area.

How does someone present in a female way if it's not about their clothing? Is it make up or something else?

Are you under the impression that true transwomen have genital surgery and take hormones? About 90% of transwomen have a penis and there's no requirement to have surgery or take hormones to get a Gender recognition certificate allowing you to change the sex shown on your birth certificate.

I will be kind

In principle you agree with the other sex using what should be a single sex space how did the women fail your test which would allow her to use the changing room next to your 13 year old son?

What would make her "manly" enough to qualify?

What were you actually objecting to when you expected that same woman to use the changing room next to your (imaginary) 13 year old daughter?

What makes that 0.1% of the population safer than the other 49.9% males in the population?

That’s been what you’ve been doing actually.

What would your daughter do if her main carer was her father?