Pervy FIL or just accept it? UPDATE PAGE 6

[MyLilacCritic]

Hi this happened last year but i can’t shake it. One of my character flaws is allowing resentment to build! I’m bad at addressing difficult situations with people in the moment - I just freeze (fawn response?)

Context I am 32F, husband 34F. His PIL are both 70 and his sister is also 32F.

in the first couple of years of our relationship I spent a lot of time with my husbands family. Because I love him and had the newly in love goggles on. Family is important to me. I was also conscious of the age of my husband’s family, i.e. not so many “good years” left.

FIL became ill so i was a dutiful daughter in law and we increased the visiting.

when we would say goodbye, it was hugs all round. I thought I was being over sensitive but his “hugs” made me feel awfully uncomfortable, inappropriate hand placement and lingering. Ugh!!!

I also felt that he would sit there staring at my chest gormlessly. Hard to prove, again - but it made (makes) me very uncomfortable.

for me the peak moment was last year. In laws were visiting us. In front of his wife and daughter, unprompted in the middle of a group conversation as we were standing around chatting, he grabbed my hips with both hands, shook me, and said something (totally irrelevant and non sequitur). I didn’t say anything, just froze. Nor did SIL or MIL they just stood there in stunned silence. Notably, my husband was not in the room.

since then, I can’t bear to be around him. I can’t talk about this to my husband as I can’t bear to crush the image of his father to him - it feels too cruel and I love my lovely husband so much.

However, keeping this from him is hard. I will do anything not to be near his parents (they’re a package deal). I try to wear the baggiest clothes possible and squirm away from any contact with them. Not a great relationship to have with your in-laws. Nonetheless FIL remains pretty determined to try and put a disgusting sloppy kiss on my cheek at the bare minimum. if we were out and about as a 4, (PIL, me and DH) I can’t bear to “pair off” with FIL who I resent so much.

I tried to get support on dealing with this in therapy but didn’t get very far. But I knew the Mumsnet herd might have som experience in this - please help me work out what to to!

My mum recommends trying to focus on the positive qualities of the people who raised my wonderful DH. Unfortunately, I’m finding this very very hard.

YABU - he’s just an old man of a generation that got overexcited. You need to forgive him and move on
YANBU - totally unacceptable behaviour from any man, let alone your FIL

Any advice on how to proceed with managing this relationship?

Could he have dementia? That sometimes affects inhibitions. Not that you have to put up with it, but perhaps a way of raising concern with your husband?

Thank you, this is a good point and makes sense to me. From what I understand/ have experienced, dementia symptoms can start small before it is full blown. I will bear this in mind x

Sounds like start of dementia in all honesty.

You need to tell this to your husband, in the context of dementia if you must.
Be very clear that it makes you feel deeply uncomfortable, and you will step back as a result.

It is so wrong for you, not to mention this.
If your relationship is healthy, he will be concerned for you and your comfort, anything else is a red flag.

Tell him calmly, gently, BUT firmly.

Yell get your hands off me and move away from him. Make it a big deal. You can't ignore this. He's either ill or a predator. Either way you should not put up with sexual assault and physical contact that makes you uncomfortable.

Sit his family down. Tell them he's being sexually inappropriate with you and he needs a dementia screening and you will not be around him until that happens and safeguards are put in place if it is dementia

If it's not, never be around him again. Make sure he and his wife don't have keys to your home.

Your mother wants you to rugsweep and given the options of what's going on here, that's the worst thing you could do.

I know you are right. I think I made this question because I needed to hear it from someone else. This is the same advice my therapist gave me - now I just need to work out how and when

thank you x

It sounds a lot more like dirty old man syndrome, though.

I think your mum was being quite unreasonable and unfair to recommend that you ignore the unwanted inappropriate sexual behaviour from your FIL and to concentrate on his positive qualities.

You have been put in a horrible position here. You do need to talk to your DH about it. Either your FIL is showing the early signs of dementia or he is an unapologetic sex pest who is harassing his own DIL. Both options will be upsetting for your DH, but he needs to know what's going on and how it is affecting you and your relationship with his family. Hopefully, he will be supportive.

I will try and channel this energy the next time it happens. I’ll be honest, this kind of response doesn’t come naturally to me in the moment but I DEFINITELY feel unbearable rage/ anger afterwards..and it’s not good for me

and rugsweeping is exactly it you’re right. It’s one reason I feel so anxious about this - I’m pregnant and I’m really worried about future interactions with me/the baby and FIL.

I don’t think accepting it is the way to go.

i hear you that challenging it in the moment is difficult.

i think you probably do need to sit down and have a conversation with your husband. Early dementia may be a good way to frame it.

i’d also recommend covering up and baggy clothes. Think through in advance how you can avoid spending time with him - does mil have interests that you share and you can get in conversation with her?

I’d also try to drop down the time you spend with them. A project at work, family stuff, whatever.

Another question I need help with: like many people say, I need to talk to my husband about this. But my response shows my own emotional immaturity/ conflict avoidance: I can never find the right time to tell my husband

for example, it’s Friday afternoon right now. The thought of discussing this with my husband and ruining our evening and weekend - I’m scared, honestly. My husband is so gentle but I know this will hurt him. I think it comes from me growing up in a household with an explosive/ unpredictable dad.

I’ve now avoided the problem for so many months and it’s just grown. I despair at myself

You have to speak up next time. Do it for your future child and make sure it's in front of others so he is shamed into not doing it again. And you do need to tell your husband.

I know how this feels to a point - my uncle (by marriage, not a blood relative) always made me uncomfortable around age 16-18 but I wasn't in a position to say anything back in the late 90s. Since my aunt died I have managed to never see him again otherwise I'm not sure what I would have done.

Edit: When are you due to see them again? You could bring it up just before the next visit.

Thank you, I agree. I think my mum and MIL ignoring this issue is because in their lives, their husbands provided the £ and stability. This is the only way I can understand it. If that makes sense? There is quite a lot of submission and keeping the peace and whatever dad says, goes.

I am going to have the conversation with DH.

I had similar with late FIL. He'd always been a bit creepy around women but never inappropriately touched them as far as I'm aware. Also, he'd never done or said anything inappropriate to me (I'm quite outspoken and I think he knew I wouldn't tolerate it). Then, when he was in his eighties he started to openly obsess about a particular body part on women. When visiting, he constantly commented on this body part and never took his eyes off it, practically salivating over it. I thought I must be overreacting until two cleaners we'd employed both told us he'd been making very inappropriate, sexual comments to them, asking to look at and touch this part of their bodies, it was so bad that they both resigned. We also employed carers and I had to warn them about his behaviour. The carers and his partner (an ex nurse) all laughed at me and told me they were used to it and that it was probably dementia. I was horrified but I couldn't stop visiting as he relied on me for shopping etc My dh spoke to him sternly about it and frightened him, saying he was lucky the cleaners hadn't reported him to the police. He went into a home soon after and then passed away. When sorting out his house we found pages and pages ripped out of magazines showing this body part he was obsessed with, stuffed in his bedroom drawers. I feel so sorry for anyone with dementia and I felt sorry for him but he was so very scary to be around and his behaviour was unacceptable whatever his state of mind was, as far as I was concerned any women who were in close contact with him didn't have to just "put up with" and excuse his behavior simply because he might have dementia. Your dh must make it clear to his dad and mum, that his behaviour around you is unacceptable, you don't have to let him kiss you goodbye/hello etc. I'd make it clear to dh that he must tell his father he is not allowed to touch you. You don't have to put up with this.

I think you should definitely talk to your husband, it will be a difficult conversation but it needs to be had. And agree a plan of action so he backs you up. For example, you're obviously avoiding being alone with him or near him in a group setting. When you leave, don't wait for a hug/kiss goodbye, just grab your coat and say a quick goodbye and head outside to the car. And if he does touch you inappropriately, move away sharply and say 'Please don't touch me like that, it makes me uncomfortable'. Hopefully he will get the message that you're not going to passively accept his behaviour any more.

My FIL was exactly the same , it suddenly became really bad. Turns out he had dementia 😔

could you write your husband a letter? Explaining what happens and how it makes you feel. Its not good that you are feeling stressed about having such a basic conversation with your husband. It doesn't bode well for your relationship.

When your child is born are they going to have to accept unwelcome cuddles and kisses from their grandad (or any other person for that matter)? You should be setting your own boundaries so that you will be able to initially advocate for your child and ultimately teach them that they don't have to accept such behaviour from anyone.

You also need to accept the possibility (and figure out what your are going to do ) that your husband is unwilling to support any reduced interaction with your FIL which then becomes tricky from a safeguarding point of view for your soon to be little one.

Your mother has given you duff advice and to be honest if that's the sort of advice and role model she was/is then it's no wonder you are in the pickle you are in now.

" Darling, I'm worried about your dad. He isn't behaving properly to me. He keeps trying to touch me too much. Your sister and mum saw him grab me and seemed shocked too. Do you think he could have dementia?"
I'm not saying this is the best way, but if you are struggling to verbalise it.

You're just putting off doing the hard thing not telling your husband as soon as you can.

He needs to know this and he needs to safeguard his family from a man who is ill or a sexual predator.

Sending scrappiness. (Honestly, I'd shove him away but I'm comfortable with my fight response to assault, that might be a bit much for you).

Enough dementia to only do it when her husband is out of the room?

I would like that type of dementia when my time comes...

Your DH. Needs to know. His “ruined weekend” of finding out the truth is not any more important than your RUINED MONTHS feeling vulnerable and alone. Jesus Christ, woman. He is supposed to be your safe space. Your husband needs to know and you are doing not of you and your relationship a disservice by keeping this from him.

You aren’t protecting him.

Sounds like you’ve known him a while and he’s always been like this. Unfortunately these dirty old men are far more prevalent than we want to admit. Honestly, next time he does anything remotely inappropriate, say “Get off me” loudly & if your husband isn’t in the room go and tell him immediately, then leave whenever you are. You CAN do this, and once you have said it, you’ll feel empowered - for the sake of yourself and other women he invariably does this to, you need to make a stand.

This. I was 20 when I met my sons dad, he was 29, his brother was 50.

I put up with so much groping from his brother... Maybe it was my young age and not knowing how to deal with it, but one day I just exploded -

Get your fucking hands off me!!!

In front of everyone, it didn't happen again.

Please don't excuse lecherous old mens filthy behaviour by calling dementia - is lingeringly touching anyone else? Doubt it.

I agree you have to tell your husband and think that doing so will help you greatly.

You're worried about spoiling your weekend, well it won't necessarily will it. You say your husband is a gentle man - he will surely understand and want to support you.

If it were me I would raise it over a coffee, when you're both sitting quietly. Start with - there's something I want to tell you and I need your help with it - then tell him what you've told us, that you're uncomfortable, you feel alone with it, you don't know what to do and you need his help.

Your catastrophising the outcome of speaking up or being honest is what is holding you back in dealing with things. This is the thing you need to work on. You being honest and asking for help is a beginning, a step forward. It's not a failure or a bad ending.