Pervy FIL or just accept it? UPDATE PAGE 6

[MyLilacCritic]

Hi this happened last year but i can’t shake it. One of my character flaws is allowing resentment to build! I’m bad at addressing difficult situations with people in the moment - I just freeze (fawn response?)

Context I am 32F, husband 34F. His PIL are both 70 and his sister is also 32F.

in the first couple of years of our relationship I spent a lot of time with my husbands family. Because I love him and had the newly in love goggles on. Family is important to me. I was also conscious of the age of my husband’s family, i.e. not so many “good years” left.

FIL became ill so i was a dutiful daughter in law and we increased the visiting.

when we would say goodbye, it was hugs all round. I thought I was being over sensitive but his “hugs” made me feel awfully uncomfortable, inappropriate hand placement and lingering. Ugh!!!

I also felt that he would sit there staring at my chest gormlessly. Hard to prove, again - but it made (makes) me very uncomfortable.

for me the peak moment was last year. In laws were visiting us. In front of his wife and daughter, unprompted in the middle of a group conversation as we were standing around chatting, he grabbed my hips with both hands, shook me, and said something (totally irrelevant and non sequitur). I didn’t say anything, just froze. Nor did SIL or MIL they just stood there in stunned silence. Notably, my husband was not in the room.

since then, I can’t bear to be around him. I can’t talk about this to my husband as I can’t bear to crush the image of his father to him - it feels too cruel and I love my lovely husband so much.

However, keeping this from him is hard. I will do anything not to be near his parents (they’re a package deal). I try to wear the baggiest clothes possible and squirm away from any contact with them. Not a great relationship to have with your in-laws. Nonetheless FIL remains pretty determined to try and put a disgusting sloppy kiss on my cheek at the bare minimum. if we were out and about as a 4, (PIL, me and DH) I can’t bear to “pair off” with FIL who I resent so much.

I tried to get support on dealing with this in therapy but didn’t get very far. But I knew the Mumsnet herd might have som experience in this - please help me work out what to to!

My mum recommends trying to focus on the positive qualities of the people who raised my wonderful DH. Unfortunately, I’m finding this very very hard.

YABU - he’s just an old man of a generation that got overexcited. You need to forgive him and move on
YANBU - totally unacceptable behaviour from any man, let alone your FIL

Any advice on how to proceed with managing this relationship?

The fact is only 3% of people age 70-74 in the UK have dementia. According to many mumsnet posters they all have it 🙄
I'm sorry you are being made to feel like this OP. Try staying back from the hello goodbye hugs & wear loose clothing when around him & see if that helps.

Having said this I'm not saying He is not amongst the 3% although I think I'd need more proof before making that diagnosis to his son. It would be a very upsetting thought for him His father's behaviour may or may not be due to dementia especially given it's a very small minority in his age group. I'd tread lightly on that one without more proof.

Yes I was thinking this .
My friends dad would say inappropriate things to his daughters .. he honestly was a lovely man and an amazing dad to them.Sadly it was dementia doctors had explained this can happen.
Although that doesn't mean you have to be in this situation it's very uncomfortable and off putting.
I'd talk to hubby don't assume he will be hurt there are ways you can say things he'd be upset if he knew you hadn't confided in him x

That doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be tested for it. Because he may be one of the 3%. My mum was when she exhibited similar sexual disinhibition. It’s a recognised red flag. What is the point of the drive to recognise the early symptoms of the onset of dementia if we’re going to gloss over it and go straight to ‘he’s a perv’ ?

I said he may or may not be one of the 3%. Lack of inhibition is undoubtedly an early sign but the over all picture is for a Doctor to decide. They have specific tests they do during a consultation & they know whether to take it further.

Totally Agree!

Yes, l know. Mum underwent them and was referred for diagnosis - turned out to be vascular dementia. But there has been no testing of OP’s FiL, and until there is, they won’t know. OP said this has only happened since FIL has been ill, and at his age the illness could have been the trigger.

So true. I'm sorry about your mums diagnosis.

I admit I was in a rush when reading the original post. I missed one of the important points involving the hip grab. This definitely needs to be addressed whatever the cause. It's difficult to get a person who exhibits this initial unusual sexualised behaviour to agree to tests if everything else appears completely normal and worse if extremely physically fit & still driving etc. I've no idea how people take things forward in this respect. Perhaps there are others here who can help.

This sounds awful OP!
as other commenters have said, tell DH asap.
whether it’s dementia or not, you deserve to feel safe and comfortable always.

Call him out immediately !

Dave ! Did you mean to sound so pervy

Dave do you realise where your hands are?

How has DP committed to tackle this @MyLilacCritic? How will he step up for his wife under attack and his unborn child? Dementia or not - you need to be the priority here. Your DH needs to step in to protect and support you directly - and intervene if his DF is in cognitive decline. You shouldn’t have to deal with another minute of this stress especially whilst pregnant.

When he next reaches out to you, and for your own peace of mind and safety tell him firmly.........NO PHYSICAL CONTACT and BACK OFF NOW.

Make sure you do say it firmly because he may think he is in with a chance and overpower you.

If not dementia, then I'd have thought a swift knee in the groin a lasting solution.

Your MIL & SIL stood in silence, this speaks volumes my love. Please, and aggressively say NO! Dementia or not, he is putting HIS hands on YOUR body inappropriately and no-one around you is helping, although seeing it. Find your voice foremostly, get DH to address this with his family and get a GP appointment

I would say out loud what he's doing every time, in a firm but light hearted way, so that everyone is aware what he's doing. It could embarrass him into stopping

I would no longer hug or anything, I would instead say you feel like your coming down with something so you'd rather not get too close and stay away. His wife and daughter will understand. I'd also arrange other stuff when they visit - oh dear so sorry I have a clash, will be leaving at xyz then scarper.

You need to tell your husband though.

As someone said he way be starting with dementia but it's not an excuse, he still knows right from wrong.

I'm confused why you wouldn't tell your husband?!? He can run interference for you.

Be careful with that - you could be giving the opportunity/excuse to pass it off as pregnancy hormones and that can't happen because that's giving him a green light to continue.

Well done OP
I came here to suggest that you practise your verbal responses ( in private) because that makes it easier to handle situations in the moment.
Discuss with your DH what your boundaries could be, and the consequences for crossing them.
eg ‘ FIL - I don’t want you to xxx, and if you do, (or do it again ) I will xxx’

I think you should just tell him it makes him look stupid, without getting too much into the sexual aspect.

My first thought too. I have worked in care homes and have experience of "randy" old men. It is lack of inhibition and awareness of what they are saying or doing. In that situation you just have to tell them a firm no or move away. In your situation you need to keep as far away as possible when you are with them, sit in an arm chair not the sofa where he can sit next to you, carry something in front of you, a handbag or children's toy or just be "busy" when they are around (or even have a headache to remove yourself). Make it a game of dodge the pervy FIL! You will think of ways to do this. Good luck.

I agree. The @MyLilacCritic has already brought this up with her DH. It is now in DH’s gift how to protect his wife and unborn child from the stress of sexual assault where it is predatory or dementia.

The OP is a victim here and is often the case in trauma is paralysed and unable to speak in the moment. No victim of assault should be advised to kick him in the balls, shout out or swerve him as the solution. If she was able to have done this she would have.

She doesn’t need to live under the stress of waiting for this to happen again for her to intervene.

Her DH needs to talk to his DF in the presence of his DM and DSis - and be crystal clear of what happened, the impact on his wife and what expectations are now.

This is where others need to step up and step in to advocate for victims who have been silenced and terrified by males and social situations. OP needs to be protected and supported by her DH and the rest of the family. She needs to be believed, the impact on her and her pregnancy respected and her welfare prioritised over any awkward social issues of fronting up to the FIL.

The impact on her and her unborn child due to stress hormones is no different depending on his motives and capacity. She has been emotionally and physically violated. If she had been hit by a car left with two broken legs it wouldn’t matter so much if the driver was drunk or sober as she still has to heal from two broken legs.

Get your DH to deal with this is an open, calm, non emotional way. Use the COIN communication system. Keep to the words you have chosen - don’t lock horns with FIL. If he blows up. Just calmly leave.

You can have a crystal clear communication with expectations and consequences - that everyone knows about.

What is your feelings @MyLilacCriticabout your FIL - have you sensed any sleazy entitlement or boundary pushing in the past - or is this out of the blue?

I'm more concerned about your fear of talking to you husband about this? On the list of difficult life situations that will without doubt occur between you and your husband in your life together, this is fairly minor.
What on earth will you do about much bigger, more important things you'll need to discuss with him going forward?
Kids etc.
Also about the FIl, aging men like my Grandad seems to return to an adolescent sexual obsession. My Grandad also became obsessive about girls and embarrassed all of us by openly discussing, and taking actions to start a campaign that carers should be able to "satisfy" their patients needs and not be penalized for it,.if you get my drift.
If you can take it out of the personal and keep it matter of fact in any discussions going forward, then that takes the sting away.

He’s a dirty perverted old man and needs stopping!! Dementia isn’t the answer! He’s just a sex pest. Tell him loudly to get his hands off you as you don’t appreciate him groping you if he goes near you again!

Your husband isn’t blind or stupid and will have seen his father doing this to either you or other people he is just pretending it doesn’t exist/didn’t happen but that’s not fair on the women he’s assaulting

I would deliberately step on his foot, very hard. Oops.