Pervy FIL or just accept it? UPDATE PAGE 6

[MyLilacCritic]

Hi this happened last year but i can’t shake it. One of my character flaws is allowing resentment to build! I’m bad at addressing difficult situations with people in the moment - I just freeze (fawn response?)

Context I am 32F, husband 34F. His PIL are both 70 and his sister is also 32F.

in the first couple of years of our relationship I spent a lot of time with my husbands family. Because I love him and had the newly in love goggles on. Family is important to me. I was also conscious of the age of my husband’s family, i.e. not so many “good years” left.

FIL became ill so i was a dutiful daughter in law and we increased the visiting.

when we would say goodbye, it was hugs all round. I thought I was being over sensitive but his “hugs” made me feel awfully uncomfortable, inappropriate hand placement and lingering. Ugh!!!

I also felt that he would sit there staring at my chest gormlessly. Hard to prove, again - but it made (makes) me very uncomfortable.

for me the peak moment was last year. In laws were visiting us. In front of his wife and daughter, unprompted in the middle of a group conversation as we were standing around chatting, he grabbed my hips with both hands, shook me, and said something (totally irrelevant and non sequitur). I didn’t say anything, just froze. Nor did SIL or MIL they just stood there in stunned silence. Notably, my husband was not in the room.

since then, I can’t bear to be around him. I can’t talk about this to my husband as I can’t bear to crush the image of his father to him - it feels too cruel and I love my lovely husband so much.

However, keeping this from him is hard. I will do anything not to be near his parents (they’re a package deal). I try to wear the baggiest clothes possible and squirm away from any contact with them. Not a great relationship to have with your in-laws. Nonetheless FIL remains pretty determined to try and put a disgusting sloppy kiss on my cheek at the bare minimum. if we were out and about as a 4, (PIL, me and DH) I can’t bear to “pair off” with FIL who I resent so much.

I tried to get support on dealing with this in therapy but didn’t get very far. But I knew the Mumsnet herd might have som experience in this - please help me work out what to to!

My mum recommends trying to focus on the positive qualities of the people who raised my wonderful DH. Unfortunately, I’m finding this very very hard.

YABU - he’s just an old man of a generation that got overexcited. You need to forgive him and move on
YANBU - totally unacceptable behaviour from any man, let alone your FIL

Any advice on how to proceed with managing this relationship?

OP -

"DH, I am really worried about FiL. I read an article about dementia yesterday and it said that early signs are sexually inappropriate behavior. Have you noticed that when I am around he does x,y,z? Should we figure out a way to get him tested?"

That equals you and dh being a team. Also highlights FiL issue. Creates allies for you.

I think you should just speak to your FIL when you two get a moment alone. Tell him not to touch kiss or hug you again as you don't like it

Lovely MNers, I am carefully reading and rereading your responses. This is exactly what I needed. Diversity of opinion but you do all agree on the most important things. Thank you so much for helping me. Truly, it’s invaluable

in my original post I wrote “mumsnet herd”, it was a poor choice of words and I can’t work out how to edit it!!! Horrible wording choice

the key messages I’m getting:

• transparency of communication with husband - this has to start!
• protecting myself by anticipating the situation in advance
• how important it is to advocate for my own boundaries, especially as I will soon be doing that for DB

I agree if at all possible try and calmly but firmly call it out every time- it doesn't need to be massively confrontational

Remove his hands from you, saying I only let (husband) do that/touch me there.

I also think the sooner you discuss with your husband the better, if you have a girl will you be happy leaving her alone with the in laws ?

First post - excusing men.

Could he have dementia???

My life!!!

No, he's an old fucking pervert who should know better!!!

I’m a ppl pleaser and know it’s difficult to speak up , but if he was to do the same to your child you’d quite rightly roar !!
id say definitely get your DH onboard, the longer you leave it the harder it is to say something.
good luck

I know you and others saying this mean well, but it totally grinds my gears. There are so many pervy men out there, weve all experienced this kind of thing from me. FIL being a sleazy arsehole is the far more obvious explanation for what op describes. This kind of trying to find an alternative explanation doesn’t help matters.

OP, a freeze response to sexualised behaviour in an inappropriate situation, is normal. And you clearly have reasons for being conflict avoidant in your history. But I agree with others that you need to start with speaking to DH. How it makes DH feel isn’t your responsibility, although of course you care and are mindful of this.

I feel like your pregnancy is a good motivator for this. You don’t want your kids growing up afraid to speak up when they are being harmed. So it’s time to put on your big girl pants and learn to do it, so you can teach them in the future. You can do this. Be brave. He’s the arsehole and you’ve done nothing wrong - FIL has caused this.

Im really sorry you are going through this and wholeheartedly agree with everyone posting that the first step has got to be getting your DH onside.

Your fear that there is never a good time to talk about this and will ‘spoil the weekend’ is very worrying. Yes, it isn’t great and hd might need a moment (even overnight) to process this news but it should strengthen the relationship between you. Anything else and I’d say you have a DH problem on top of everything else.

Short term I’d avoid being in the same space as FiL. Worst case, make sure your DH is always between you and FiL. You can way and say goodbye from the safety of having DH between you always. This is your DH’s chance to step up.

if he doesn’t, maybe therapy will be the place to unpick that. Give him a chance to show he is on your side, that you are a team together.

Can’t believe as much as 8% have said Yabu!
This is totally not on and you need to tell your h how uncomfortable it makes you. You could have another 20+ years of this!

'you touch me again I breaka your face'
he wouldnt fucking do it to me

Oh no, why would she want to be alone with him? If he's a dirty old man, he won't react well to it and if he really has dementia, this is not the way to go either. OP needs to explain to her husband so he can protect her a bit.

I stopped visiting my FIL . He had dementia and became very sexually inappropriate. He would rub himself against me when we hugged. His neice stayed at his house the night before a job interview. He started asking her about her boyfriend and then moved on to their sex life. She tried to change the subject several times but he kept returning to it. In the end she made an excuse, left and booked into a cheap hotel.

Do you really get the impression OP is the kind of person who could say this or break someone's face? Realistic advice might be more helpful.

If you are truly stuck on how to approach this, you can always frame it to your husband that the way your dad touches you makes you feel uncomfortable because you don't like people touching you or being in your personal space.. You can emphasise how the pregnancy is making it more heightened and you want to now do something about it as you no longer feel comfortable in his presence.

You do not have to frame his FIL as inappropriate straight out, but you do need to share with your DH how it makes you feel so it can be dealt with, he may realise how inappropriate his dad's behaviour is once his attention is called to it and he then sees it for what it is.

Ideally he should be having a quiet word with his dad to tell him to stop it.

I'd be surprised if your husband hasn't noticed changes in your behaviour, like withdrawing into your shell when FIL is around. He really does need to be aware especially as pregnancy and then postpartum will have you feeling extra vulnerable.
Well done for seeking therapy and advice here, and remember that a good partner will prioritise your feelings and not those of his dad's. It's his responsibility to protect you from his family members.

But wasn’t the hip grabbing once, over a year ago?

what does he currently do that makes you uncomfortable OP?

because if you sit them down and say all of that about that incident it will be quite an odd thing to do.

OP what will DH do if you tell him? That might be all you need to do

My FIL had some minor brain damage after a heart attack and it affected his behaviour like this.

I'd talk to your husband. He will probably have an idea whether this is out of character.

Inappropriate behaviour is a classic symptoms of frontotemporal dementia. You my have known several old men with dementia but obviously haven’t had first hand experience of caring for any.

How awful for you , I am so sorry.

My step father was like this , luckily we had already left home, but we used to run past him to avoid a sloppy kiss.
All the older men of our mum's generation would greet all the ladies with sloppy kisses on the lips.
Our adult sons one day said to our mum , " That's disgusting Nan ", and told her not to let another man do that to her but she loved it.
It's inappropriate.
Could you take your father in law to one side and ask him not to hug / kiss you ? Can you not bring up the subject with your husband and say that you feel uncomfortable, would your father in law do it if your husband is right beside you ?

I wonder if all of those falling over themselves to diagnose dementia, have asked themselves how many women are slobbering over their family members or rubbing themselves on them when they start to develop dementia? Is it so hard to admit many men are sleazebags? No wonder we have such a problem with male sexual behaviour in our society, when women can’t even agree there’s something wrong here that needs called out.

I imagine the point is dementia means all the perving they wanted to do for the last 50 years can no longer be resisted.

tbh, who cares if he has dementia- I don’t want be perved over either way. My thoughts and feelings matter not his.

OP, you say this all started after he became ill. Illness in the elderly (although he is only 70) can accelerate cognitive decline or uncover dementia symptoms that weren't previously apparent.

Was he like this before?

I completely understand your sense of shame. I had this with DH's cousin, who furtively grabbed my tits when we said goodbye. I couldn't believe it had actually happened, and so said nothing for a while. It was only much later that I found out I wasn't the only one. We'll never see him again (he lives abroad), which is a shame as I have these little fantasies about grabbing him by the balls next time we said hello. In reality of course I probably wouldn't have the balls, so to speak!

Do you have dc? Would you be happy he was around your dc? Particularly a dd?. Advocate for yourself as you would a dd..
Any sign of a kiss - move away. Who cares of he is offended? You bloody shouldn't that's for sure....

I understand that you are trying to protect your DH but he isn't a fool, he will have picked up on your reluctance to be with his family and probable coldness towards his Dad. Not telling him could do more damage. I think you are getting good advice here in that you can question dementia and this wouldn't affect Dhs memories of him as a good person. If it's dementia that's awfully sad for him. Maybe he is just a dirty perv but your dh doesn't need to know that.

This reads like AI