Pervy FIL or just accept it? UPDATE PAGE 6

[MyLilacCritic]

Hi this happened last year but i can’t shake it. One of my character flaws is allowing resentment to build! I’m bad at addressing difficult situations with people in the moment - I just freeze (fawn response?)

Context I am 32F, husband 34F. His PIL are both 70 and his sister is also 32F.

in the first couple of years of our relationship I spent a lot of time with my husbands family. Because I love him and had the newly in love goggles on. Family is important to me. I was also conscious of the age of my husband’s family, i.e. not so many “good years” left.

FIL became ill so i was a dutiful daughter in law and we increased the visiting.

when we would say goodbye, it was hugs all round. I thought I was being over sensitive but his “hugs” made me feel awfully uncomfortable, inappropriate hand placement and lingering. Ugh!!!

I also felt that he would sit there staring at my chest gormlessly. Hard to prove, again - but it made (makes) me very uncomfortable.

for me the peak moment was last year. In laws were visiting us. In front of his wife and daughter, unprompted in the middle of a group conversation as we were standing around chatting, he grabbed my hips with both hands, shook me, and said something (totally irrelevant and non sequitur). I didn’t say anything, just froze. Nor did SIL or MIL they just stood there in stunned silence. Notably, my husband was not in the room.

since then, I can’t bear to be around him. I can’t talk about this to my husband as I can’t bear to crush the image of his father to him - it feels too cruel and I love my lovely husband so much.

However, keeping this from him is hard. I will do anything not to be near his parents (they’re a package deal). I try to wear the baggiest clothes possible and squirm away from any contact with them. Not a great relationship to have with your in-laws. Nonetheless FIL remains pretty determined to try and put a disgusting sloppy kiss on my cheek at the bare minimum. if we were out and about as a 4, (PIL, me and DH) I can’t bear to “pair off” with FIL who I resent so much.

I tried to get support on dealing with this in therapy but didn’t get very far. But I knew the Mumsnet herd might have som experience in this - please help me work out what to to!

My mum recommends trying to focus on the positive qualities of the people who raised my wonderful DH. Unfortunately, I’m finding this very very hard.

YABU - he’s just an old man of a generation that got overexcited. You need to forgive him and move on
YANBU - totally unacceptable behaviour from any man, let alone your FIL

Any advice on how to proceed with managing this relationship?

I don’t need to accept being perved over because someone can’t help it. That’s all there is to it. That FIL may have dementia doesn’t change anything for OP.

His age is no excuse, although dementia might be. There was no 'generation' that got excited, just sleazy blokes in every generation

Keep well clear, and tell your husband

I didn’t say it did. Upthread l said exactly the same thing - regardless of the root cause OP needs to be protected from the behaviour. But if it is being caused by dementia, he has no control over it and your assertion that ‘the point is dementia means all the perving they wanted to do for the last 50 years can no longer be resisted’ is not only nonsense, it’s deeply offensive.

Totally unacceptable.
Call him out and address it.

Nah, my dad's like this and has always been like this, even with me. It's deeply unpleasant but until very recently was just put up with generally by society. My dad's much older so is easy to dodge around.
Not something I'd ever mention to anyone in real life, it's just so embarrassing. My husband and his family aren't sleazy at all, as we're none of my friends fathers growing up. Just my dad 😏

This is appalling stress for you to be under whilst pregnant, you poor pet.

As a parent you will find there will be times when you need to advocate for your child.
This is one of them.

Advocate for yourself, and you will be advocating for your baby.

"When we keep silent to keep the peace, we cause a war within us"

Actually @DotAndCarryOne2, I am not being flippant, and am in the throes of dealing with dementia in our family.

I am very well versed in the devastation it causes.

Yes - sexual inhibition can be part of it.

But - if an older, but not old man grabs a young woman by the hips when his son is not around, dementia is not the first thing I turn to.

Only time will tell in this case.

I am sorry of I caused you distress.

Update: I spoke to DH.

like I said, thank you all so much for giving your array of opinions. It’s what I was looking for. What came through strongest to me was that by me keeeping quiet, I was absorbing the pain and discomfort of the secret - which is how I felt.

I know that it makes some people roll their eyes when people like me are conflict avoidant “people pleasers”. Trust me I know, it’s an issue which doesn’t make anyone happy but just kicks issues down the road. I am trying to work on it and face my problems head on. Thank you for the people that understood that this is the position I was coming from, but still kindly and firmly told me I needed to address it

just walked the dog with DH and started by talking about how we deal with secrets/ issues. He basically said yes it’s not good but normally comes from a place of love. And then I womanned up, spat it out and told him.

he took it really well and was really kind and gentle. It’s an icky sensation to tell this story. But I feel lighter. I do feel scared about the hurt this will cause him

a little more context: DH’s social circle - he doesn’t really have many close friends, he just has me and his family and some long distance friends. This is the story I told myself when I was justifying keeping secrets from him. Damaging either of those relationships would be so hard on him. You know?

and more context on FIL - I was doubtful it was explicitly dementia, but he has been having a lot of hospital (cancer) treatment in the last couple of years. It’s possible this has had an impact on his mind, although I don’t want to make excuses.

re: pregnancy - yes, another issue with keeping this secret to myself was I was spiralling with imagining horrible scenarios during the rest of pregnancy and post partum period. This spiralling and catastrophising is a bad habit of mine and I recognise that it happens when I keep problems to myself and don’t look to my loved ones for support.

thank you for the wise wake up calls ladies. Mumsnet is truly a unique place to get advice. And no, none of this was written with AI (it’s far too clumsy for that!)

thank you for hearing me out and being the ears I needed, the advice I needed.

I mean, I don’t know it sounds like this has been going on for quite a long time?

Well done OP.
Mind yourself and your baby.

Disgusting, no way you can tolerate this pervy behaviour any longer. Tell your DH to have a strong word with FIL, if that doesn’t stop him, call him out on it.
Edit. Saw your update, well done, FIL is depending upon your gentle personality style, no more.

Almost certainly dementia, but that doesn’t make much of a difference in how the family needs to deal with it.

Or any difference in how being assaulted feels. Ugh.

Talk to DH and don’t talk to the apologists to create a strategy. Don’t ever be alone with FIL and don’t let anyone else leave you alone with him.

Tell your husband. It could make some things fall into place for him.

In the absence of any kind of dementia I would get him on his own and push my face into his and say quietly but firmly if you touch me again in any way or put your slobbery mouth on my skin I will tell your son, your wife & daughter what a disgusting SOB you are. Don’t think I won’t.
the trick is to look fierce and frightening. Don’t get into a conversation, don’t shout. Practice first in front of a mirror
he won’t repeat the behaviour, that sort never do. But If he does follow through

To have the conversation with your husband, I recommend using a technique called ‘non violent communication’ (if you Google it you will find info), this helps so much with difficult conversations

With these sorts of things you have to address it at the time. As soon as it happens. So the truth can’t be manipulated. I think if you say something ages later or something generalised you will sound like you have a problem, rather than you are reacting to a problem. If he’s staring at your chest, the time to deal with it is there and then ‘it makes me uncomfortable that you keep looking at my chest’. Or to your husband at the side, at the time. Saying it ages after the moment has passed just leaves you sounding questionable. Sorry, I wish that wasn’t the case.

Well done lovely, you did so well! I'm glad your DH was kind and gentle ☺️ you feel lighter because you're no longer carrying this alone! Look after yourself 💐

You did really well having the talk with your husband and I hope this gets addressed so you don't have to be around FIL any more.

What's the saying, a burden shared is a burden halved, something like that.

Well done for recognising the issue, posting here and then taking action. The most important person is you and your baby who doesn’t need the stress hormones flooding their system. I don’t know what plans your DH has to support you - but I would just use your pregnancy to put in loads of distance. Opt out of as many meet ups as you can. Is your DH going to talk to his DF & DM together on your behalf?

I am sorry this happened to you.

A dog walk is the PERFECT time for a serious chat, neither of you actually properly looking at each other, you can both just talk and it doesn't feel as confrontational as sitting down face to face.

We used to talk serious stuff over a jigsaw for the same reason!

I'm glad he listened and was receptive about it, hopefully you can formulate a plan for how to deal with it going forward.

Yes, she doesn't have to suffer it either way. However, whether or not to be angry with FiL about does change depending on whether he can help it or not.

I’d be wearing hoodies and jeans around him so he can’t perv at me! Also try to be less available to see them, send your DH alone and don’t sit or stand anywhere near him when you do have to see him

Find your anger and TELL him CALMLY and FIRMLY "Do not touch me" clearly and loudly enough for all around to hear.

Speak to your DH. If ANYONE was making me uncomfortable like this my husband would not stand for it. No matter who they were.

My FiL was like this after MiL died. I think he just wanted comfort but rubbing his hands up and down my body was horrible. He was always a bit too touchy feely for my liking but this was too much.
I developed a giraffe neck. Part of me felt sorry for him and I would have given him a hug but it went too far for me and so he basically lost pretty much all physical affection as I was the only female in his life and men don’t hug men you know. His stance.

Next time tell him politely not to touch you like that. Don't worry about embarrassing him because he doesn't care about making you uncomfortable. If you don't say something he will think his behaviour is acceptable to you and next time might be a grope in a room when you are alone with him!!!