To be so scared and horrified about ICE?

[BarbaraVineFan]

Sorry, I know there must be other threads about this, but I’m lying in bed alone , feeling really terrified about what’s going on in the US right now and what it will lead to. I keep seeing videos saying that Trump’s administration is behaving as though they don’t have to worry about winning an election because they will just seize power. I also saw a couple suggesting that this is the start of civil war. I think it’s such a dark time for the world and I am genuinely worried for my 6 year old DD’s future.

You seem to think your 'entry level' decency argument can be justified with technical points as a distraction from this morally repugnant act, for what reason, who knows.

P.s. Look up the meaning of 'logical fallacy' as you have been "hoisted by your own petard" there!

@DdraigGoch ,

‘If they used only reasonable & proportionate force (as per the law) then no one would be objecting.’

That’s not really true.

The whole idea of a ‘sanctuary city’ is, by definition, an objection to removing undocumented immigrants. And at least one person (although fewer than I have expected) on this thread has used the argument that immigrants are an economic positive which, on average they are, but it doesn’t imply that all are welcome!

I don't seek to justify the killing. I think it needs to be investigated properly, ideally in court. This may not happen though, due to the highly polarised nature of modern politics (which you are helping to fuel) whereby jury members will have their minds fully made up before hearing day 1 of evidence.

We watched LegalEagle before this shooting and watched his break down of law in applicable in the Renne Good case. I found it interesting as I don't know US law.

Well you can’t stop people from voting for them. Sometimes you’ve just got to accept all you can do is make the right choices for yourself and let others get on with what they’re going to do. Otherwise you’ll send yourself mad.

That is an issue. So much has been shown already online a jury would likely have decided beforehand either way and probably on political lines.

It's advisory not instruction.

How ironic that a Minnesota law (Minnesota Statute § 609.066) was signed by Tim Walz, the Governor — the same Governor who is now telling people to fight back against ICE! (2020).
Minnesota Statute § 609.066 allows officers to use deadly force to protect themselves or others from death or great bodily harm. This means that if an officer reasonably believes a moving vehicle poses such an imminent threat, they can use force.
I really wish Renee had not listened to her wife, who was outside the car, so everyone — including the ICE agent — could hear her shouting “Drive, baby, drive.” If you hear that being shouted, how do you know 100% whether her intention was simply to drive away to escape, or to hurt someone?
So in Minnesota the statute will only be applied to state officers and not to ICE agents, as they are only Federal officers.

It’s quite something, trying to excuse a woman being shot multiple times in the face, isn’t it?

How do you think it went, shooting the driver of a car that was proceeding very slowly with the wheels turned away from the officer? It sped up, out of control, and crashed into a lamp post. It seems that shooting a driver with a lethal weapon resulted in making the car into a lethal weapon. I think we’re lucky that more people weren’t killed as a result of the officers actions. I don’t think you’re questioning that too much here though, are you?

Meanwhile, if it truly was in good faith you would think ICE would be being extremely careful now, wouldn’t you? Rather than asking women whether they’ve learned their lesson yet? Or firing tear gas into a car with two infants in it resulting in them being hospitalised? I mean, there are countless other examples I could come up with. But you know, just a couple to tide you over while you look into their loved ones to come up with an excuse for it.

And in relation to what Tim Walz is advising, do you think that German citizens should’ve remained quiet as the Gestapo got on with it all? And the rest of the world too?

Anyway, I don’t think good faith is anywhere in your vicinity, so let’s leave it there.

Do you believe the car struck the agent or not?

‘Let him have it, Chris!’
Google it.

Even so, there would be far less controversy if ICE did behave reasonably and proportionately.

There is no way that he reasonably believed that he was in danger. When he swapped the hands he was using to film with his phone (not very professional) and unholstered the weapon she was reversing. He had plenty of opportunity to move out of the way. Instead he leaned in. There is an old report documenting how DHS officers were deliberately standing in front of cars in order to claim "self defence".

Then the second and third shots were fired through the side window. He was several feet clear of the car when it pulled out. No way was he in danger.

After firing he said "fucking bitch". Not in a frightened or startled tone, he was annoyed.

I do not. But even if it did, I still think that his actions before during and after would be reprehensible. I also think that it’s not an isolated incidence with ICE. It’s a continued pattern of behaviour.

Before walking off, showing no signs of injury whatsoever and leaving the scene.

This brings back school days! Derek Bentley.

Badenoch has also said this

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/07/badenoch-tories-new-policies-british-ice-stop-and-search

I would agree his actions could be considered reprehensible. But there's a huge difference between reprehensible and guilty of murder. That's why I think its important that the facts get established accurately with forensics, medical reports etc. Which becomes harder the more this turns into a polarised political issue where dems and Republicans each have their own version of the truth and reject the other versoon completely.

Maybe because of adrenaline? After an accident, adrenaline masks pain, provides a surge of energy and alertness, allowing you to move and feel fine despite serious injuries. This can hide serious conditions like internal bleeding, whiplash, or concussions, which often only become apparent hours or days later when the adrenaline wears off, leading to delayed pain, fatigue, and other symptoms.

The ICE agent has since been diagnosed with internal bleeding from his injuries. Yes I believe he was hit by the car.

I think the main point is that he ought to be tried... he doesn't get to have immunity. The POTUS and senior members of government should not be smearing the woman who was killed, in fact they should have nothing to do with it. The man needs to be investigated, he should be in trouble for leaving the scene of a crime for a start, and it needs investigated.

Or it sets the precedent that ICE agents are outside the law and can claim anything is acceptable in the line of duty. Which I think unfortunately is exactly what the regime wants, so they can spread general fear and alarm, especially in Democrat-run areas in order to punish people for not voting for them

Oh goodness, that internal bleeding, that sounds scary doesn’t it. It’s confusing, though how he was reported to have gone straight back to his house and to the hospital at the same time while the White House press office almost immediately confirmed he’d been released from hospital. All of the information released, before any type of investigation had occurred.

It must’ve been really hard for him to get appropriate treatment with all of that confusion! Luckily though, he’s alive. Whereas Renee Good was shot multiple times in the face. I’m really glad he was able to get such speedy treatment though, seeing as Renee was bleeding out in the car while a doctor was refused access.

Quick question for you, if asked a few years ago, would you imagine you’d be standing up for a man who would shot a woman in the face? Have you always thought this way, or has something changed recently?

Agree immunity is the worst possible outcome and Trump et al have handled it badly. But having said that, it would be very hard to ensure a fair trial.

Well, he’s a convicted felon and it’s had zero impact on him as far as I can tell. His supporters seem to lap it up.

Meanwhile, they justify ICE violence as removing violent criminal offenders. The irony…

Bullshit was he hit by that car! At worst he may have pulled a muscle from stepping away. But he was not hit by the vehicle. And even if the thug was hit the car was just moving off doing at most 5mph. He was not hurt by that vehicle.
More likely he injured himself whilst beating up some other poor unfortunate soul earlier on.

Internal bleeding can mean anything from mild bruising right up to serious life threatening injury. Judging by the nonsense that is being spewed by both ICE and the administration I’d say it was the former rather than the latter. But of course it sounds dramatic calling a bruise internal bleeding doesn’t it!