To be so scared and horrified about ICE?

[BarbaraVineFan]

Sorry, I know there must be other threads about this, but I’m lying in bed alone , feeling really terrified about what’s going on in the US right now and what it will lead to. I keep seeing videos saying that Trump’s administration is behaving as though they don’t have to worry about winning an election because they will just seize power. I also saw a couple suggesting that this is the start of civil war. I think it’s such a dark time for the world and I am genuinely worried for my 6 year old DD’s future.

Do you expect anyone to take that point seriously?

And shoot directly at her, 3 times
I have read this thread with interest, to see what trump supporters thought. They very much are of the "she bought it on herself" view. I do have to say that, even if most or even all that was said about Good was true...if... I still think it was clear she wasn't using the car as a weapon, and him shooting her THREE times, is just indefensible..

Why wouldn't they, that's a more accurate description..

I was making 2 points. First that European police forces are generally armed so that having an armed police force is not unusual. And second that compared to the rest of the world the USA is not an outlier in terms of police killings.

I am not an advocate of police killing civilians but some perspective is in order.

Because a law enforcement officer killing someone in cold blood is obviously worse than one killing someone in panic.

Agree. But I would say poor decisions on both sides led to tragedy. The agent shouldn't have stood in front of the car at all. Good shouldn't have driven forwards while the agent was positioned ahead of her, then the agent could have jumped aside rather than firing.
Ideally there will be an investigation and a trial. But America's polarised politics may prevent that happening.

So panicking, undisciplined, untrained officers are people you'd want hanging around your neighbourhood?

I see, it didn't read like that.

Do you believe that ICE are right to beat up 17 year olds and dump them several miles away just because of the colour of their skin?

The fact that the 17 year old was actually a US citizen makes it even more absurd.

Do you believe that ICE are right to frequently use chokeholds when that is a very dangerous method of restraint?

He had already swapped his phone to his left hand and unholstered his weapon while she was reversing. He leaned in to get in the way. The subsequent shots (the ones that actually proved fatal) were through the side window - he was practically running after her for the last one. This was murder.

I could not care less. How ICE goes about its business is nothing to do with me.

You are genuinely so bad at arguing I suggest you give up before you do your cause more harm.

It wasn't similar in the slightest. The January 6th insurrectionists were an armed mob trying to force their way into a secure area and lynch the Vice President. Renee Good and her wife were a lesbian couple who emasculated a short-tempered thug. Listen to his voice when he says "fucking bitch". It's not frightened, it's not shaken, it's angry.

I think the problem you are finding is that you have no coherent argument so you cannot reply to the most basic of questions about what you think.

Jonathan Garcia is a US citizen. He was born in the US. Yet he still got abducted by ICE, beaten up and dumped miles away. Just because he looked a bit brown.

Just a reminder, some Spanish speaking families in California and a few other states can trace back their ancestors there back to before the US took the state from Mexico. They've got more right to be there than white Americans.

It gets worse. Indigenous people from tribes including Oglala Sioux have been detained. These people have been living there since long before any European crossed the Atlantic. But according to ICE the only true Americans are the white ones.

Murder is wrong. ICE should respect the law.

"US police officers don't kill as many people as Venezuelan officers do" is not the flex that you think it is.

I think ICE need to exist (or something similar) but they should behave like any other area of law enforcement: no face masks, visible badges and being accountable for their behaviour.

The Minneapolis shooting did look like manslaughter at least to me and keeping local law enforcement out of it is outrageous.

But undocumented immigrants do need to be forcibly removed, or why should anyone apply to immigrate legally?!

Particularly given that two of those shots were through a side window.

Nothing about the way that he acted suggests that he was in a panic. Look at his own video.

If you ever get beaten up we'll be sure to look the other way then.

My argument was pretty clear - An officer who kills a protester in a panic is not good, but is better than one who sets out to murder a protester in cold blood.

You stated the reverse was true. Then made the logical fallacy that if I think A is better than B, then I think A is good. I would expect a person of average intelligence or above to easily avoid such sloppy thinking.

If they used only reasonable & proportionate force (as per the law) then no one would be objecting.

Likewise their detention centres need to be humane (the conditions in many legally amount to torture) and detainees should be allowed to phone their families and be given access to a lawyer as soon as possible.

If you’re in the US and I get beaten up in Britain then I wouldn’t even expect you to know about it, let alone form a view. Why on earth would you care? It would be nothing to do with you.

Unless you’re living in America, it doesn’t really affect you. It’s awful, but not a personal worry.

There’s enough to worry about over here. 🤷‍♀️