To pull DS from his school

[FoxyDash]

I have boy girl twins aged 14.

DS has no diagnosis but he is really struggling behaviour wise at school.

He is in trouble pretty much every day and has had multiple isolations this term.

It feels like everything is punishment and nothing is support.

DD does not have any lessons with him but she constantly hears people telling her that her brother [name redacted] has done this or that.

She comes home upset and embarrassed even though she has done nothing wrong.

I am starting to worry it is affecting her education and confidence.

School just say they are following policy and his behaviour is unacceptable.

There seems to be no plan beyond sanctions and phone calls home.

I feel completely stuck and let down by them.

Would it be advisable to move him to another school or could that make things worse.

If people dont have a child like this then they have no clue. My 14 year old is the same as your son. But is on the adhd pathway.
We are currently in the process of doing an in year transfer to move high school as he is heading for failure at the school he is at.
The school is known to be very strict and we thought this would be good for him
What has actually happened is he gets himself worked up before even going into school, ends up acting out, feels like he needs to be silly to keep friends, the teachers then punish him and he retaliates .
He thinks they all hate and dislike him so no point in trying anyway.
The school have changed their behaviour system to instant detentions , no warnings. But the detentions are at break and lunch. My son desperately needs this time to blow off steam .
He is given a detention multiple times a day to the point where every break and lunch is spent in a detention causing a vicious circle. I have had many meetings with his school. He has a classroom support plan which is not followed by some, and they refuse to consider different punishments , he would rather go in isolation to decompress.
Its stressful for the staff, him and us and I have almost daily phone calls. He's only got 18 months left until he finishes school forever and I honestly can't wait. Its been a daily struggle since he was 4 years old.
I have other children who are completely different, compliant and excellent at school. Its horrible for everyone involved and I send you love and support

So what do you think a suitable punishment would be for not getting changed for PE?

The behaviour you describe isn't low level misbehaviour.

What are his results like in tests and assessments? I'd be concerned that he's acting out because he's struggling to access the curriculum - especially if GCSEs are on the horizon.

If I were you, I'd make a plan of things to check:

Eyesight and hearing - can get both tested at Specsavers.
Assessment by Educational Psychologist. Ideally this would be done in conjunction with school so they have buy-in, and be more likely to support any changes/adaptations that are needed. He may be struggling with dyslexia, processing issues etc. A lot of these things can go undetected in bright children, who only start to struggle when work gets harder and they can no longer wing it.
Check his phone - any signs of bullying/accessing inappropriate content online/being drawn into county lines etc.

If all of that comes back fine, then consider whether there might be some ND. The Ed Psychologist might have something to say about this too.

If your son has a happy, stable home life, friends, hobbies - then there will be something else going on. You just need to find out what it is.

So he "isn't much better at home" yet you are blaming the school for everything? If his behaviour is the same wherever he is and your only problem is that you don't like the way school handle it (because his sister is embarrassed), the implication is that you don't think he should be punished at all (for what is certainly not "low level" misbehaviour) and that you don't actually do anything at all about it yourself. It's very noticeable that you haven't answered any of the many questions about how you handle it in general. What do you actually do about it?
Your constant comparison of him to his sister(s) very probably doesn't help, either. Did you not want a boy, OP? You really don't seem to have much real interest in him beyond the fact his reputation embarrasses his twin.
Go and see the school and ask them how they propose to help him and how you can help at home. Don't lead with "or I might have to remove him" - they would probably like to see the back of him.

I couldn't agree more.

OP, if you haven't already, could you request a meeting with DS's teacher and head of year to discuss SaLT intervention.

While I understand some of the behaviour you have described is dangerous to other students, and the school has a duty of care to keep others safe, isolation is only a short-term solution to the immediate issue. It doesn't fix the underlying problem. There is a cause for his behaviour.

You say he was fine in primary, so do you mean that this behaviour has been evident from Y7, or more recent than that? What is home life like for him, has there been any trauma? What about his online habits? Who does he socialise with? What are his personal relationships like?

If you can rule out all of the above, and your other children are doing well with your behaviour management strategies, then it may point to something more neurodevelopmental. Undiagnosed nd kids often fall apart at secondary school unfortunately, and if it's something like adhd then unfortunately many schools are not good at spotting it or dealing with it effectively precisely because they approach it from a perspective of behavioural choice.

The issues you describe are not low level and I think you need to wake up to how bad it is. 14yo ds was diagnosed with adhd last year. His behaviour points were for low level things - chatting to friends, not producing enough work, missed deadlines, swinging on his chair, forgetting equipment. If he'd reached the level of disruption you describe, he'd probably have been diagnosed sooner... you have more than enough evidence to ask them to support a referral.

Thanks.
You really need to work with the school and address his poor behaviour and maybe get him some counselling to find out what has caused his behaviour to deteriorate to such an unacceptable level.
The behaviour you are describing is really bad, even the things that you say are low level are extremely disruptive and unacceptable and the throwing of stuff, fighting and vandalism are outrageous.
Are you putting consequences in place for him at home? Have you asked him why hes behaving this way?
What are you doing to support the school?

Wow the judgement on here saying I don't parent or give him consequences, I do. He just doesn't care.

He was much better in primary school. Im not minimising, the school have said some of the behaviour is low level. In regards to the isolation I still find it OTT, he wasn't going go do PE anyway but he still had to get changed just to sit on the side. I don't know why they didn't let it slide, he wasn't refusing to participate as he wasn't going to be anyway

I didn't believe he was unwell on Friday as he was unhappy with the fact his school was still open and he refuses to get up most days. He does go after a fashion, just late which is more consequences and behaviour points, he'd eaten 2 cereal bars so no I didn't “trust” him. He did end up being unwell with a bug but I don't see how he'll be laughed at for throwing up and he's still well enough to have a go at me over it 🤷‍♀️

Look at different schools and do a managed move.

Why wasn’t he going to be doing PE?

There has also been some good advice and additional questions from PPs that you haven't responded to. Something is driving the behaviour, and behaviour is communication. If you get to the root cause you stand a better chance of supporting him. Changing schools may just end up passing the problem on, which doesn't actually help your son.

I have spoken to him, I've taken his devices but he just doesn't care, I've asked why, I've shouted etc. None of it works. He always gets home in a bad mood and takes it out on us, he usually goes to sleep and when I attempt to wake him for dinner 99% if the time he doesn't. And yes, he does get plenty of sleep at night.

OP you come across as a parent who minimises their child’s behaviour as ‘not that bad’. Whereas a lot of parents (mine, for instance!) would have been mortified if I had ever behaved like that.

There are quite a few teachers on MN (past and present) and i can guarantee that they read your post and rolled their eyes. That behaviour is some of the worst to deal with because it disrupts the learning of everyone else and takes teachers away from what they should be doing- teaching. But, according to some parents, it’s “not that bad”.
It is bad. Your child is rude, disruptive and disrespectful.

You are blaming absolutely everybody but yourself for this.

@FoxyDash is his father in his life? Or a positive male influence? You haven’t specified.

Apologies if I missed this but have you asked him how he’d feel about a move?

I gave you some advice upthread but based on your update I would also take him to the Dr and get him checked for thyroid, diabetes or other ailments. If he is in a bad mood and then sleeping heavily straught after school, then there is something going on. If the stomach ache continues thats a major flag for anxiety. My own son had behaviour issues that were similar to your son and also had on/off stomach ache and vomiting for two years until we figured out that he was dyslexic and also had OCD and an anxiety disorder. Also as a previous poster said, ask him would he like to move schools. Also ask him what would make is life better/how you can help him to improve his daily life.

I agree with this

I'm sorry you feel like you're being judged when looking for support!

The lashing out and wanting to sleep all the time does raise red flags for potential mental health problems.

From my personal experience, we had a family tragedy when I was 9. I was in denial and seemed fine in primary and first few years of secondary but when school pressure ramped up and hormones kicked in, I started to spiral. I started refusing to go to school, skipping lessons and wanted to sleep all the time. My mum put it down to being a difficult teenager but it eventually transpired that I was really depressed and had severe anxiety. I spent a few years in therapy and am a perfectly happy, successful and stable adult now.

I obviously don't know if there's anything in the past that could have affected your son - or something going on in the background that you might not be aware of (as a teacher I've seen quite a few boys have challenging behaviour when dealing with bullying or coming to terms with things like sexual identity... it can be a huge range of things that we might never think of!). Either way, I'd encourage a chat with your GP and school pastoral team if possible.

He sounds unwell from your last update. Have you taken him to a GP? Surely you know that amount of time in bed is not healthy?

As said im not minimising or blaming anyone else, I'm exhausted with his behaviour. I'm a single mum, his dad is in his life but not regularly and they aren't close. He isn't into football and his dad seemed to thing boy = football but he's never really cared for it. He has taken them both to matches as DD is interested in it, but DS has never taken an interest in playing.

He played rugby which his dad would take him to and I don't think he enjoyed it very much but he never said that and his dad said he had to do some kind of exercise as DD was doing football (which she enjoyed). He ended up getting injured and he needs a knee op which we don't have a date for as yet.

He has been to the GP but nothing is wrong with him medically, he usually wakes up late evening but then can't get back to sleep, obviously. So it's a constant cycle, especially when he has no phone. He chooses to sleep.

First thing get him checked by the GP and have them check his iron levels. Secondly get in touch with the school as this is not normal. My autistic child does this at the end of term when is in autistic burn out. Your son needs support. Tell them you want a full support plan put in place and an educational psychologist to work with him.

@FoxyDash that sounds hard has anyone referred him to camhs,?
Edited for typos

You really aren’t even going to consider getting your son assessed are you? @FoxyDash

Assessed for what? As said I don't believe he has ASD ADHD etc. I can't afford to go private either so it'll be years until he does get assessed and by then he'll likely have left school and probably be close to 18. If not already.

He's not been referred to camhs, no. I'm just at a loss with what to do because his behaviour seems constant.

I missed a question earlier, yes the reason he doesn't have the same classes as dd is because of different sets. For maths and English type classes he's in the lowest set, I don't think it's to do with him not being academic, he just rarely completes work to a good enough standard in their eyes. He recently got sent out when he had an assessment type lesson because he fell off his chair, and he was accused of being disruptive which he obviously wouldn't be able to do in a normal exam. His excuse was he was trying to reach for his pen but again that wouldn't look good in a real exam as he could be accused of trying to look at other peoples answers. He just doesn't seem interested. I did have a meeting at the end of last academic year before the summer holidays and nothing much came of it. He just seemed proud of the amount of negative behaviour points he’d managed to get

You don’t believe he has ADHD or ASD, but you aren’t a professional and, given the severity of the situation, i would say it should

be a priority