To pull DS from his school

[FoxyDash]

I have boy girl twins aged 14.

DS has no diagnosis but he is really struggling behaviour wise at school.

He is in trouble pretty much every day and has had multiple isolations this term.

It feels like everything is punishment and nothing is support.

DD does not have any lessons with him but she constantly hears people telling her that her brother [name redacted] has done this or that.

She comes home upset and embarrassed even though she has done nothing wrong.

I am starting to worry it is affecting her education and confidence.

School just say they are following policy and his behaviour is unacceptable.

There seems to be no plan beyond sanctions and phone calls home.

I feel completely stuck and let down by them.

Would it be advisable to move him to another school or could that make things worse.

He shouldn’t need incentives to behave, being allowed to participate as a functioning member of society should be enough incentive not to have high level poor behaviour like walking out of class.

The school doesn’t seem to be addressing the behaviour other than by sanctions and it’s not clear what you are or can do about it at home. Taking him out of school for the benefit of your daughter seems reasonable to me as your son is having lots of problems there that aren’t getting better.

Sounds like his behaviour is pretty poor and I don’t see the punishments as being particularly harsh. How is a teacher supposed to manage a class if kids get to decide whether or not they feel like doing something. I would try and work with the school, moving him (even if you can get another school to accept him) will probably just be moving the problem. You seem convinced there is nothing wrong with your parenting but as I am sure you are aware with three kids it’s not one size fits all. Maybe he needs a different approach.

Lots of conversations with him, the school, him and the school and you. Spend some time with him one on one regularly to try to get to the root cause of his behaviour. He does need intervention but he also does need to be removed from classes when he’s causing disruption.

Walking out of lessons, refusing to do work, arguing back and refusing to engage is not low level behaviour. Are you backing the school up or ranting about how unfair they are to your ds?

Before you start thinking about pulling your DS from the school you need to find out what the cause of his behaviour is.

You also need to be clear as to whether you mean withdrawing from roll or just stopping him going to school. As one removes him from the education system.

And you need to do something soon or your DS will be put forward for a managed move.

It is all pretty high level behaviour really. He sounds miserable so you do need to get to the bottom of it. Children who behave like this are generally struggling academically or socially or have SEND or mental health issues and sometimes it is a combination of all of those things. He might benefit from having some counselling. I also think you need to investigate the underlying issues.

That sounds really tough, and it’s understandable you feel stuck. Constant punishment without support usually makes behaviour worse, not better, and it’s unfair that it’s affecting your daughter too.

Before moving schools, it’s worth pushing for a proper support plan and a meeting focused on why he’s struggling, not just sanctions. A school move can help, but only if the new school offers real support, otherwise the same issues often follow. Your concerns are valid.

What hobbies does he have? Does he do sports? Play music? Draw comics?

Inside and outside of school does he have any friends? Is he thriving socially?

What is his relationship like with you, his dad and his siblings? Do they get on? Do you do things together, laugh together, have family traditions that he enjoys, spend time together in the week/ on weekends, eat meals together?

If it’s true that there’s no SEN, then it sounds like he’s an unhappy child and has lost confidence in himself. So he plays up to the labels adults have given him as at least that gives him the attention he is crying out for.

What strikes me is that even though he is your child and needs urgent help, your focus is your daughter and how his needs affect her. Another thing that jumped out at me is your obvious lack of trust in him. He said he was ill, you didn’t believe him, and he vomited. If he can’t rely on his own mother to trust and advocate for him, who does he go to when he needs someone to listen to him? He sounds awfully lonely and unsupported.

Fix the cause of the unhappiness and the other aspects of his life (such as behaviour at school) will also start to improve slowly but surely.

School need to be spoken to regarding DD. She should not be getting comments about him at all.

Then address Ds behaviour

It usually is (20 years teaching and AuDHD DS1). Once our ‘naughtiest’ children go on medication, they are suddenly able to manage their behaviour.

It is thought that up to 90% of the prison estate has ADHD.

This. There is a group called Not Fine in School on Facebook which is full of people going through similar problems and there is lots of useful advice.

Your son’s behaviour sounds similar to mine, age14. We had no problems in primary, then it was a whole different picture in secondary. He was diagnosed with ADHD in year 7. Three years on and he still really struggles with focusing in class, still occasionally walks out of lessons, can be defiant etc. It’s hard when they’re on the GCSE track, there is a lot of pressure around this and your son will be picking this up. Our school (state, academic, hyper focused on results, not brilliant with SEN) has had to put support frameworks in place for my son but it hasn’t been easy, it’s taken a lot of pushing by me as they just wanted him out. Speak to the school seriously about SEN and what they offer, adjustment wise. It sounds like your son is unhappy and needs support. It’s a tough time for them anyway but the ‘criminalising’ of behaviour and constant sanctions is very unhelpful - there’s a risk he just won’t go at all unless things change for him.

Is there anyone he respects, dad, relative, teacher? You definitely need intervention of some sort and someone he respects and will feel heard by/listen to could really help.

Is it possible that the problem is the other way around and he can’t compete with his ‘golden’ sister so goes the opposite way? I have twins and I saw my daughter abdicate/give up regularly when she was little because her brother was more advanced. They did go to separate secondary schools where she overtook his results big time. Sometimes the school isn’t the right fit, sometimes bad behaviour is a protest to feeling you can’t cope or articulate what is wrong.

Good luck OP

You seem to be severely underestimating the seriousness of the behaviour. None of this is low-level.
Low-level is chatting with a classmate during lessons, forgetting your protractor, running ia few meters n a corridor.

Not getting changed for PE - of course it's instant isolation. Defiance is serious

Kids dont act like this without something else going on under the surface.
Has the school tested for learning issues? Have you had him assessed for anxiety disorders and/or other neurodiverse conditions? I see you say you dont think it is adhd/Asd but that would need to be assessed by a professional. There are some children who score highly on camouflaging traits in ASD for example.
Does he sleep enough? Is he spending too much time on screens and not moving his body enough?
What have you done to help your son so far?
Helping your son will help your daughter.
When you have figured out what is going on then it may be worth changing schools. The school already think of him as a trouble maker so I doubt they have much interest in having a mindset change. Are there any schools in the area that are less punitive?

The problem being that passes are being demanded by parents - toilet passes, medical passes, Reset passes, SEN passes, etc. It’s like Piccadilly Circus in schools. Some pupils use them in every lesson and other pupils get fed up with the constant disruption in lessons. There are no staff to escort these pupils when they leave class, so they often wonder the corridors.

So what are the consequences at home for his poor behaviour in school?

None of the issues are low-level. He sounds massively disruptive, no wonder your DD is embarrassed. Why are you downplaying it?

He needs some discipline and consequences, and help, fast.

I may have missed something but why does your son leave lessons and tear books up? He is unlikely to reveal this information to adults at school because he won’t trust them. What does he say to you? Is he finding work difficult? Is work too easy? How is his reading? Does he get on with peers? Is there a past negative experience that is still affecting his ability to engage? You can potentially help him to navigate some of his difficulties and work with the school to support him better. Sorry but you’re going to have to be a bit proactive as a parent, school can’t do everything. He doesn’t have just one teacher for the day, he’s interacting with multiple adults and kids throughout the day. You are his one constant.

I was a little shit at his age too and so I wouldn’t worry as such.

Changing schools at 14 would likely leave him feeling anxious and self conscious and make him play up more in the new school to overcome this.
He’ll have no friends and he may think the way to overcome this is to act out and get attention that way - be the class clown or cool kid.

If I were you I would discuss it with the school and see what’s best.
You can look into other schools and see if they’re an option. Perhaps ones that have extra curricular activities/courses that he would really enjoy and therefore want to behave.

Sometimes we all need a reset and a fresh start and a new school might be good for him.
But it also may not make any difference at all.

Have you spoken go him about it?

It seems to nowadays!

You've got to work out a way to get on top of his behaviour at home and at school fast. As for moving school - come up with a plan and discuss it with him - maybe he would value having a fresh start. If you push him into a change though clearly things will be worse not better.

Sounds like your DS could benefit from seeing an education psychologist.
A bit of a deep dive into his educational profile strength weaknesses and why he does what he does.
They will also give suggestions such as if a change of school is worthwhile.
go private so it can get sorted quickly.

You need to get to the bottom of his behaviour, and get him some support. School wont do much if there is no underlying medical/ emotional cause for his actions. I would suggest trying to get him assessed anyway.

There must be a reason why he is behaving like this? Putting him into another school wont change anything.

So what incentives are your other children being given to behave, that your son isnt getting?

Or is it just that your son is an insufferable immature muppet and the school are utterly fed up with him and all the drama he causes...

Imagine trying to teach 30 teenagers PE, whilst one throws a toddler tantrum because it's too cold to get changed. Ridiculous.

You need to be coming down on this like the proverbial, but you won't. You'll just keep blaming the school, then employer after employer, then the job centre, any partners too.... never your kid though.