To insist on moving DH and the DC to New York?

[TheCoralBear]

Me, DH and our DC (11 year old DS and 14 year old DD) were all born in the UK and live in London. I’ve performed in musical theatre (and I work as an usher in a theatre when I’m not performing) my whole life and it’s all I’ve ever known. Usually I perform in west end musicals here in the UK however I’ve now been offered a role on Broadway which would obviously involve moving to New York. I want to accept the role and move us all to New York but DH and the DC are dead set against it and won’t even consider it. I really don’t want to turn down the Broadway role as it’s an excellent opportunity for my career. DH are the DC are refusing to even consider moving though. DH has even suggested I go to New York alone and he stays here with the children but I’m not going to just abandon my children like that so that’s why I’ve suggested we all move to New York but DH and DC keep insisting that they don’t want to go. Would I be unreasonable to insist that we are all going to New York and that’s the end of it? DH says he doesn’t care if it’s an excellent opportunity for my career but he is not considering moving to New York, he is dead set against it.

Your children have made it abundantly clear to you that they don't want to go, you're tantrumming at them because you want them to go regardless, DH is doing the adult thing of taking the responsibility off their shoulders by saying he won't go.

Frankly I don't understand why you won't leave them behind - you clearly couldn't give a stuff what they want or how it could permanently damage their education, so it's hard to fathom why you'd want them with you (other than 'appearances').

I would add a colleague of mine did go out to NY from the UK, was meant to be a relatively permanent role. Wife and 3 kids went too. Sold their house, took kids out of their settled schools etc etc.

6 months later he was determined to be surplus to requirements and found he had (I think) 90 days to find a new job or they all had to leave the country and then ended up coming back, trying to get their kids back into decent UK schools. The disruption was wild.

OP doesn’t seem to have responded to any of the posts about messing up her children’s education. I’m not sure why that is - I’d have thought that would have been the main concern.

Something so profoundly destabilising happened to your family that the courts approved the removal of parental responsibility from your DH not that long ago, and now you want to force the same children to move to a different country for an indefinite amount of time at key moments in their education...?

Take a good hard look at yourself.

Its for Avenue Q isn't it? Has to be! You know that'll run well. It'll be masses upon masses of work, rehearsals and then shows. You will absolutely consumed by it! You won't have time for your husband and kids anyway. And you're going to be uprooting them at important times in their lives scholastically. 11 and 14? Just going into High School, and about to start GCSEs? That'd be hard on both of them. I expect neither of them would like to leave their friends. And your hubby is probably thinking that he'll be absolutely on his own with two teenagers with NO family around to give him a night off once in a while, or friends to keep the kids entertained. And you will be working nonstop so its not going to be some romantic ideal trip, there just won't be time for that!

However, my husband and daughter would love to live in New York. I'd prefer California. But my husband has holidayed in NY before and loved it. DD has only been to Florida, bit went for a month with MIL to ALL the parks, so she just adores anything US.

I'm trying not to think about the dangers of the US right now. But presuming you'd have a work visa? If youre doing Avenue Q, and puppetry is involved, you may even qualify for a specialist work visa that would bring your family over as well. But would it be enough for you to be the sole earner, if need be? In case your DH can't get a work visa? Is it enough to cover rent in Manhatten? Or somewhere further out AND travel? What about schools? Many schools in New York are private - ie have to be paid for, or religious, and you have to have a proven relationship with a church of the same denomination
... it wouldn't be easy, even if they ALL agreed and were even excited about it!!
And as several others said, you can't force them! Especially not your husband. And if hes got an issue with you taking the kids... is it worth the divorce and argument over custody that might follow? Cos trust me, one look from a judge and you'll be banned from taking them out of the country, wherever you were planning on going, and even if they agreed!

I think youre right to think of it as a career altering job, for you. You DH maybe didn't worry about the audition because he didn't think you'd get it? I dont know, and that doesn't seem kind. But having touched on that world (I sew and have helped with specific specialised dresses etc for theatre productions), I know how many auditions can be involved in one part, only to lose out. Or indeed how many auditions you can go to for soooo many different roles that you think went really well, but dont even get a proper rejection letter from, just a no! If that! So perhaps that's why he didn't want to say no to America when you auditioned, whats the point in dashing your hopes when its unlikely anyway? You know. So that may have been him trying to be kind.

And I do understand why he doesn't want to up everything and move to NY also.

Do you think if you went alone, it would be with their blessing? And not like, an end to your marriage or anything? If not, why not consider doing that? Its a good compromise! You can facetime/skype/fly home to visit! Your costs in NY would be a LOT lower if it were just you too!!

My only other idea was, do you think you could convince them to go on a holiday there with you? Prices are good this time of year. Even if you went for a long weekend, it would give them a real life idea of a city they've never been to before. And might change their minds entirely!

If it doesn't, and you still want to go. I think you need to figure out if and how to do it alone.
You also need to figure out why you dont want to leave your kids with your DH?? Cos any time someone has mentioned that you've been like No!! And shut it down quickly. Well, unless hes abusive to them... what makes him looking after them (completely alone, with no support from either of your families or friends) in NY when youre busy 24/7 better than him looking after them (also alone, but with access to family and friends) in the UK.

The only difference is you being a bit closer if there's an emergency... But youre not going to be available to them as you are now, in either situation.

Family were at home in UK. No arsing about, earning good money building roads and other infrastructure. Many other Brits worked in a similar way. Saudi, Gulf States, Oman and Iran (Shah in power).
Because it was common, I do not understand why people are making it a problem. We did it for the money the OP is doing it for her career. Very laudable.

There is a great British School in NYC, I’ve visited it a few times. Amazing facilities and all the teachers I met seemed lovely. It would cost around $130 000 a year for two children plus extras. An apartment in Manhattan with three bedrooms? My guess, based on what we paid in Boston a few years ago, $10 000 per month plus utilities.

I had a spouse visa that I could work on, it took about 4 months to get all the permits in place, once I got there. I believe everything is slower now. If your DH could not work on his spouse visa then he is unlikely to get a visa that he could work on in the 18 months you are there. It takes months from job offer to visa and he may have to apply from the U.K.

If you have a visa based on a job and you lose that job, eg if the show closes, you have a short window of time to leave the country. You don’t want to overstay in the current climate. Your husband’s spouse visa would go, you would have to remove your children from school and come back to the U.K.

Fantastic wind up.

OP also hasn't responded to any of the posts from people familiar with the WE or Broadway theatre scenes that the whole scenario is deeply implausible...

Yes, but your first sentence is the difference.

OP wants to insist her family comes with her.

I'm not falling for this obvious attempt at yet another what's wrong with the US type thread , but I'm bored 🍿.

A cousin had this re her husband. Wanted to drag her to this marvellous opportunity for him. Wasn´t so great for her. Her visa didn´t allow her to work, so in the end they separated. No kids, so he went off to his dream in the U.S. and she pursued her career in the U.K. I also would like to know how the OP will drag a grown man to the U.S. or a 14 year old for that matter when one of the parents refuses to go.

Your family stayed at home and you went on your own. Which is exactly what OP’s husband (and everyone here) is recommending. She refuses to even consider that and is insisting they go with her against their wishes.

@LighthouseLED My first post I suggested she go to NY solo. Surely it is negotiable. rather than both demanding opposites and being stubborn.

Admittedly the whole "Broadway musical theatre dream role" story is more creative than some.

I’m really not sure OP is concerned by anything other than her own dreams. It’s all been “I want, I want, I want”.

But legally? Can the spouse of an entertainment worker from abroad have a green card? Can he just move there and start work?

How long is the role going to last? Unless it's definitely for 5 years plus it seems ridiculous to try and uproot your family there against their wishes.

Could you afford a big enough house in NY on single MT performer salary?

I have a friend who is married to an American and they have two children together (born in US) He had to apply for a green card this year as it was looking impossible to get the Visa and extremely expensive. He has lived in US for years and has a successful business. I don’t think in current climate that it’s a guarantee he will get the Visa. Check that first before making any decisions. Good luck and I wish you all the luck and success you deserve it.

Its entirely possible even she will be refused a visa. The US does not want outsiders working there at present. My DH was refused one last year in very similar circumstances.

Everyone’s been suggesting that, though, and OP has just said “no”.

Even if your DH gave up parental responsibility when the children were young, he’s actively involved in their lives, if he went to court now with an 11 yo and 14yo saying they don’t want to move countries I think you will have a hard time getting any British judge to force 2 British children to leave the country they have lived in all their lives. And would you seriously want to damage your relationship with them by forcing them?

I can understand your dreams, maybe DH was just humouring you thinking you wouldn’t get the part shitty as it is on him. But I think you’re being very selfish and I’m saying that as someone who has moved countries multiple times with my children. But I always said once they were in high school I would stay put.

Have you considered the current state of the US - US citizens being killed by ICE. Any foreigners being detained without question, this includes British, Irish, Australian, New Zealand… not just people of colour who are opening targeted,

Would you be ok having your children torn away from you at the airport or on their way to school one day?

My friends DSiS was representing her country (western country) in an international sporting competition in the US recently. Her and her fellow team mates were detailed at the boarder with no explanation for 2 days. She wasn’t allowed to call anyone, no one knew what was happening. The whole team eventually flew straight home as they missed the competition, all visas were in order.

Also with a 14yo I’m guessing she’s ready for choosing her GCSEs if she isn’t already in year 10. Do you think no WS the right time to move her for 18 months which you can not even guarantee due to the lack of stability in this particular job.

If you’re serious about the role I would absolutely consider going yourself. I think you saying it’s abandoning your children is just a way for you to try getting your own way. It’s 18months, you can travel back and they can visit you. If it turns into something more you can reassess. But seriously you could not pay be enough to be a foreigner in the US atm.

I’d be gutted to pass up on that , it’s an opportunity of a lifetime.
I’d go and travel back and forth as much as I could .

OP seems to think that her DH and the children's reason for not going is [because they want to stay in the UK] not a good enough one but surely, it's a valid reason .

If you are earning enough to maintain a family in NYC, (ime maybe a minimum of $200 000 plus benefits) then you can afford to fly them over pretty regularly. London to New York is a pretty quick flight, so weekends are possible.

Except you seem to be missing the key point that the OP refused to do it as you did - going alone. You criticize her husband but he’s the one making the same suggestion that you have (that she goes to the US without them).