To wonder if past trauma was a factor in the Renee Nicole Good murder and that, while not absolving agent, it shows ICE should select agents more carefully?

[Carla786]

Reading this from the BBC, I wonder if the agent was suffering from previous trauma. They had earlier been in the Iraq War and then had huge number of stitches after being dragged by a car while arresting apparently a 'child sex offender' illicit migrant last March.

Thus I wonder if, because Renee Good clipped them with the car earlier(as The Times indicates), shooting at her car as she drove past was less a rational decision borne from evil and more an instinctive reaction from recent trauma with cars on the job?

This is NOT an excuse. But I wonder if it also shows that ICE are selecting traumatised agents who are too dangerous, due to this, to be in that position?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdx4qd4d16no

With this poster, its hard to tell....

There are some very invested posters on here. I reckon, people generally fare better overall focusing on real life social interactions than getting endlessly entangled in online arguments or trying to preach slightly obscure ideologies to strangers on the internet. Posting heavily about a subject you care about can give a sense of purpose and control but it’s easy to lose track of real life when online 'discussions' (in the widest most generous sense of the word) become the main focus.

Don’t be daft! No one’s going to take any notice of anyone who makes such utterly stupid comments.

Your DC need to step away from the internet!

I literally wrote "US Citizens".

Jeez, I knew that your comprehension was bad, but...

She wasn't killed because she blocked a road , she was killed because she drove at an officer. And going by the amount of Like reactions to my post, I think you'll find it's not just me who agrees with this

I'm not going to get into an argument, I know what I think and I will not be persuaded. This is my last post on this thread.

I think you’ll find it was HIS actions that caused her death

She was killed because the officer is a fragile POS who ignored training and protocol because he felt emasculated.

No it actually doesn’t. It only says it can be considered.

The standard is still whether he had a reasonable belief in imminent death or serious injury.

Ok so two US citizens. It does happen and it’s too bad. I too wish for 100% accuracy.

You don’t have to be so condescending, btw

US Courts have award damages to plenty of people shot or to their families by PO's who put themselves at risk and then used a weapon.

Its why many states specify in the regs that POs should do this, if for no other reason than it could lead to an officers needless death, a dead driver can, as we saw, hit the accelerator and the vehicle can then hit anyone, only by the grace of god, no one else killed.

However, you clearly support her murder, you wont even consider any alternative pov and support the agent given immunity, therefore ruling out a trial that would prove either way his actions.

Have wonder why you don't want a trial and support those who have given immunity.

Anyway, had enough of arguing with idiots, not that i would consider you one of course.

This wasn't a traumatized man. This was a thug with a bruised ego. He wasn't hurt. He ran away after shooting a woman in the face, after calling her a 'fucking bitch'. He leant over the bonnet to shoot her. He shot the side of her car twice. He The administration is telling blatant lies. Absolutely blatant. They are telling Americans to disregard what they see with their eyes, and forget what they've heard.

His 'training' should have told him not step in front of a vehicle.
His 'training' should have told him that he is not authorised to use deadly force to stop a vehicle.
His 'training' should have told him to put his damn phone away and keep both hands prepared if he felt he was in danger.

But the racist, violent, misogynist nature of ICE isn't a coincidence. The training is minimal, the qualifications required non-existent, and the recruitment drive uses violent, war-like imagery. They aren't being recruited to protect communities, but to eliminate a supposed enemy. There will be no trial or justice for Renee because the violence is the point.

This isn't the first killing by ICE and it won't be the last, not to mention the families they've torn apart, the thousands of people held without due process in inhumane 'detention centres', and the fact that these things are allowed to operate without ID and while covering their identities.

I find it interesting that thugs who stormed the capitol in an effort to hurt and kill Democratic representatives were pardoned, but Renee, who tried to drive away, is given a death sentence.

Maybe his mum wast kind to him. Maybe he got called names at school. Not interested. Much of ICE is made up of Trump's Darlings, pardoned insurrectionists who should rightly still be in prison. Being a psychopathic potential murderer is practically a requirement.

Nah. It's for you to look back. My post above re ICE releasing convicted criminals stands. I posted the evidence yesterday. If you want to try again to disprove my post, you look back. Yesterday you failed. And you defended ICE by saying it saves taxpayers the cost of keeping convicted criminals in jail.

Fantastic eh.

US Courts have award damages to plenty of people shot or to their families by PO's who put themselves at risk and then used a weapon

The standard is pretty high so I’m wondering what case you are thinking of. There was one where a cop shot a woman who was moving to throw boiling water at him, but the jury thought it didn’t qualify as imminent (she wasn’t moving to actually throw it?). I saw the cam footage and it seemed he was quite far away.

Edited to add that the burden of proof is lighter with a civil case, where families can get awarded damages in certain circumstances, yes that happens.

Its why many states specify in the regs that POs should do this

Sure but the legal standard is different from departmental guidelines.

However, you clearly support her murder, you wont even consider any alternative pov and support the agent given immunity, therefore ruling out a trial that would prove either way his actions

I personally don’t think it’s necessary to drag him through a trial based on what we’ve seen but I understand those who feel differently.

That wasn’t me, probably you were responding to another poster

There are many more such cases. 674 citizens arrested that we know about. Quite a few of them are veterans. Often given no access to a phone to call their family or to obtain legal representation. Detained in unsanitary conditions despite restraining orders from courts.

Not that you care. You'd be contorting yourself to find a justification for the Holocaust if it happened today.

Have you seen the video of Stephen Miller's speech for a Class President election? What an arsehole. Campaigning for the right to litter, because it's the janitors' job to clean up after him.

I apologize if so. But what I said in the above post stands. You were involved in that discussion as I recall. Not the instigator though.

Someone shared a link (from a leftist outlet) that only 50 US citizens were arrested by ICE who were suspected of being illegal aliens. Out of what, 350,000 detained and/or deported? Again, it’s a good hit rate (though I suppose it’s 52 now).

Citizens can be arrested for obstruction by ICE, which will probably be most of that number you shared? Renee should have been one of those, if only she’d have listened

You don't think a man who disregarded his 'training' to shoot a woman in the face 3 times, and who abandoned the scene of the crime, should face trial? Jesus wept.

Ddraig Goch no, haven't seen it thankfully. He owns a face thst hasn't been slapped hard enough or frequently enough. Not that I'd usually advocate violence but as its Miller, who gets a thrill from it, why not?

He should face trial because someone died.

To not have a trial or at the very least an independent investigation to decide if he should stand, just makes the US no better than a dictatorship.

@RingoJuice There are numerous cases where courts, including the supreme court has ruled that an officer cannot place himself in a dangerous situation and use that as justification for lethal force.

Tennessee v Gardner, Graham v Connor, Kirby v Duva...

If you want to understand it more, I'd suggest looking at a wider range of sources than you currently are. You don't necessarily need to look at left-wing sources, but when evaluating a source as credible or showing the complete picture, look at what they are saying - are they saying "It was justified just because it was... we can all see, we all have eyes... she drove at him..." or are they giving a range of interpetations and examining each point on it's own merits, with corresponding case law and advice from serving or retired law enforcement officials and legal experts?

I tend to get turned off by the manical ranting you tend to see in right-wing blogs, podcasts, articles etc., so I've probably not delved very deeply into the content they offer, but I do generally find left-leaning or central sources to be more balanced and more able or willing to back things up with verifiable sources/laws/case law or to consult with experts and listen to their understanding.

Thank you, this is valuable information.

Re this 'She apparently left him and is now with a woman partner.' - is there any confirmed source for this? It does seem to line up suspiciously with the murder of Good as a potential factor but equally a lot of info had been flying around so we can't be sure of a lot yet.