To wonder if past trauma was a factor in the Renee Nicole Good murder and that, while not absolving agent, it shows ICE should select agents more carefully?

[Carla786]

Reading this from the BBC, I wonder if the agent was suffering from previous trauma. They had earlier been in the Iraq War and then had huge number of stitches after being dragged by a car while arresting apparently a 'child sex offender' illicit migrant last March.

Thus I wonder if, because Renee Good clipped them with the car earlier(as The Times indicates), shooting at her car as she drove past was less a rational decision borne from evil and more an instinctive reaction from recent trauma with cars on the job?

This is NOT an excuse. But I wonder if it also shows that ICE are selecting traumatised agents who are too dangerous, due to this, to be in that position?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdx4qd4d16no

I don't watch online clips. The only social media I use are Mumsnet and IG, and IG is just for following people I know in real life. I've followed US news in both right & left wing UK papers, but there's been a lot to keep up with.

People should not be obstructing officers like that, protest should happen some other way. I still condemn not sending back dangerous criminals but that doesn't mean I support everything ICE are doing. There clearly ARE serious issues with their conduct too, in various places.

Left winger women like Sarah Champion, Anne Cryer, Julie Bindel & others were among the first to speak out about the grooming gangs. But I agree a section of the Corbyn-type left ignores this kind of crime entirelym

Re the tear gas claim, this did happen according to this article.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/chicago-daycare-worker-detained-by-ice-at-drop-off-time-for-children-witnesses-say%23:~:text%3DIn%2520Los%2520Angeles%252C%2520agents%2520handcuffed,where%2520children%2520had%2520been%2520playing.&ved=2ahUKEwjb8ui0h5GSAxV5VkEAHU4MO-gQFnoECBoQBQ&usg=AOvVaw3LagD0ATWpAP5EUSfXR8l-

Other questionable tear gas incidents :

https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/ice-tear-gassed-family-vehicle-with-6-children-inside/

https://www.mprnews.org/story/2026/01/08/after-border-patrol-clash-at-roosevelt-minneapolis-schools-cancel-classes

Yep, plenty of examples. On the daycare thing, there was a man with his toddler in the car recently. He got pulled over by ICE and spoke calmly to them. Heartbreakingly he was trying to chat calmly to his child too. He asked for a couple of minutes to take his child into the daycare first. They responded by smashing his car window and taking him. All recorded on his dashcam. They’re fucking evil and anyone making excuses for them is addled or as bad as the are.

I can’t open the link?

So let me get this right. Many of you believe that big, strong men who get hit by cars must be violent, wife beating, knuckle draggers. Listen to yourselves. You’d want these men to protect you if you needed them but only when you pick and choose. If someone ran me over I think my reaction would be to lash out. I seriously doubt a trained ICE agent cares if a woman is a lesbian 😂

They actually did let the guy drop off his child. He was arrested afterwards for overstaying his visa.

That's a total misrepresentation of people's concerns and shows a distinct lack of awareness and critical thinking about events.

Many people have seen the videos. If you don't want to be seen as a violent thug, don't behave like a violent thug, hang out with violent thugs, or try to justify the thuggish and in some cases murderous behaviour.

I have posted a couple of times on this thread but feel I must comment about this post. I have over 25 years policing experience. I whole heartedly believe that “ law enforcement “ requires a degree of toughness and sometimes “violence” - ( I think the official term is force but realistically that’s what we’re talking about). What comes with that power is a respect for the law, professionalism, moderation and fairness. The evidence I’ve seen from the videos of this incident and a series of others is a complete lack of any of those qualities. It was an absolute shit show and a complete embarrassment and I don’t understand anyone who defends it. They are knuckle draggers and mouth breathers and I would give them a massive swerve in the canteen ( which says a lot because I was friends with the guys in the TSG) - they are poor, undisciplined , sub par excuse for law enforcement and I would be embarrassed to be associated with them.

Thing is someone can have 25 years experience and still get it wrong. For example that Chief Super or whatever who has just been made to retire due to his very poor decision making in Birmingham. Experience does not always equal competence.

ICE are doing a very difficult job in the face of constant obstruction and provocation. Obviously this incident should not have happened, if she'd followed instructions and not behaved in a way perceived to be a threat it wouldn't have.

I’m not wrong. I’m willing to believe they’ve had insufficient training to do their job properly but the reason they attract so much protest is their method are excessive and dangerous. Arresting people believed to be illegal immigrants is not complicated if you have an intelligence pipeline. For the record walking up to random people and demanding they prove their identify or dragging them away to have their faces scanned is not intelligence led. It’s perfectly possible to speak to people politely and ascertain information and there are immigration officers and law enforcement all over the place who do just that with no incident. What we’re seeing ICE agents who are too hyper at the beginning which inevitably ensures escalation beyond their limited training. They’re putting themselves and their colleagues at risk let alone members of the public. How unsafe is it to walk up to a man at a petrol station who is putting petrol in his car and start asking him to prove his identity. ( let’s see if you can identify the risk in that scenario 💀 🔥). They clearly have no idea how to manage a public order situations - no shields , some of them no helmets, no tactics, pulling hand guns on people. No escalation of their tactical options just straight to guns in faces. They follow people in unmarked cars and then run them off the road when they don’t stop. There is footage of them using a firearm to batter a woman’s car window to get her out. Can you see any danger in that? You may well be dismissive of my experience - that’s pretty rude but I mean I’m not going to point a gun in your face about it. I’m going to guess as limited as you consider my experience I have a 100 times more insight into this issue than the majority of people blindly defending them.

Oh my god.

It’s very likely they are actually being encouraged to amp up the violence, although you only have to watch a couple of videos of them to see that they’re not having any issues doing so.

It’s in MAGA’s benefit to create a situation where citizens fight back. If he can declare an insurrection, he can interfere with the midterm elections, which the Republicans are desperate to do. They’re desperate to not lose control of the house.

Oh, come on. They are out of control and it’s evident to anyone with eyes. It’s plain to see they’re running absolutely rampant and since Renee Good, have only escalated. Don’t be silly.

I’ve seen a lot of people say this and it’s so plain to see. I can’t believe anybody refuting this is in good faith at this point.

I’m trying to find the case I’m referring to, there are quite a few if you search people being violently apprehended when trying to drop their children off at daycare.

When I find it, I will post it here, because I don’t think that was the outcome of the one I looked at. Regardless, he was cooperating and they smashed his window open while he tried to calmly reassure his toddler in the back of the car. It was heartbreaking and horrifying.

If you’ve got the details, could you post please? I hope it is the one I’m referring to because I’ve thought about that child a lot since and it would be a relief to know he was dropped off safely.

'I’m going to guess as limited as you consider my experience I have a 100 times more insight into this issue than the majority of people blindly defending them'

Tbh i don't think police or ex police in the country are in any position to criticise another law enforcement serice. We've seen cock up after cock up and as I say the latest chief forced to resign over..a cock up.

Met police would not last 5 mins in the US.

Sometimes on Mumsnet recently, I feel like I’m in the middle of some kind of school or college experiment.

Imagine that social media was available in 1930s Germany and you are having a discussion with Nazi supporters. How might those conversations go and what might you say?

Thankfully, the police in the most under siege from ICE areas of the US at the moment are trying not to get involved.

While it’s upsetting to see them not intervene when civilians are getting assaulted, it’s clear they are standing back to prevent Trump from using the insurrection law. Nobody wants to give him an excuse to unleash more military power against his own citizens in a way that can impact the upcoming midterms.

We've had the nazi thing already.

The nazis rounded up legal residents and murdered them in the millions.

Immigration and customs officers are getting rid of criminals who are in the US illegally.

To conflate the 2 is appalling and a bit sick tbh.

No Gloriia, it’s not. We can use history to show us patterns and cycles of which this one is very clear. In the early days of it, I had hoped that we were overreacting, but, we’re so far down the road now, you have to either be very naïve or purposely obstructive to avoid the comparison.

I have to say though, I’m not laughing much these days, but I did have to smile at you calling me sick. 😊

Comparing the nazis to ICE is sick. Glad you find the subject funny. I bet victims of The Holocaust wouldn't.

Just so long as you ignore the rhetoric, language and outright lies from the federal government, the 100s of US citizens being targeted because of their skin colour, the legal migrants being drag from their court appointments, or the ones unfortunate enough to be detained being maimed and killed, eh?

Yup, definitely no parallels here...

Pretty much the same way they are going on mumsnet now.

You have a leader taking over other countries by force, blackmail and threats.
You have the leader demanding they expand their territory.
You have a department dragging people off the street and disappearing them into places like alligator alcatraz where some are still missing from.
You have those rounded up being inhumanely treated in detention camps.
You have state sponsored violence against people who oppose the administration.
You have people being deported.
You have people having passports cancelled whilst out of the country meaning they cant return.
You have the administration attempting to silence the media.

This is just some of the shit that is being pulled.

Nothing like 1930s Germany?