To wonder if past trauma was a factor in the Renee Nicole Good murder and that, while not absolving agent, it shows ICE should select agents more carefully?

[Carla786]

Reading this from the BBC, I wonder if the agent was suffering from previous trauma. They had earlier been in the Iraq War and then had huge number of stitches after being dragged by a car while arresting apparently a 'child sex offender' illicit migrant last March.

Thus I wonder if, because Renee Good clipped them with the car earlier(as The Times indicates), shooting at her car as she drove past was less a rational decision borne from evil and more an instinctive reaction from recent trauma with cars on the job?

This is NOT an excuse. But I wonder if it also shows that ICE are selecting traumatised agents who are too dangerous, due to this, to be in that position?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdx4qd4d16no

I thought you were an American Maga fan. Most Europeans I know wouldn't dismiss their own culture claiming the current state of the US mindset to be better.

No I actually haven’t lived in the US for quite some time now. But I obviously care a great deal about my home country!

No one is lecturing, what a strange position to take, it is more than we are aghast and in shock.

I think you can criticize Europe without necessarily endorsing the US mindset.

But that poster isn't doing that. They are clearly sympathetic to the righteousness of their approach.

Inevitable. The magic little word that is supposed to make people ignore accountability. BTW, there was no darting. It's not a year 3 creative writing exercise.

@Carla786

There are a couple of things I think Europe is naive about. Western values are European values. I think Europeans act as if European values are natural human values, ie if it wasn’t for authoritarian governments or religious oppression, people would naturally gravitate towards Western values. I just think that’s naive and actually kind of disrespectful

I also think Europeans take for granted how much our lives depend on fossil fuels and how the developing world needs access to cheap, reliable fossil fuels to promote their development and raise their SOL. Europe going along and cutting CO2 before solid alternatives exist (and refusing to consider building nuclear) will only impoverish themselves and leave them as a cautionary tale (in my view anyway)

Immigration goes without saying …

All of this JMHO ofc

Allow me to rephrase. It was inevitable after she hit a federal agent with her car

And I thought you were the kind of person who would patronisingly ask what ‘British culture’ even means.

If I were you I'd been having a serious talk with your kids because your son's talking point come from a very specific corner of the manosphere & your daughter isn't displaying critical thinking

I wasn’t talking about the shooting. I was talking about the American versus British outlook in general.

Britain is a very small, very safe, very predictable bubble, with generous welfare, virtually zero personal responsibility, everything is the fault of the state. We have a lot of very luxury beliefs and a sense of somehow being ‘superior’ and more authentic, based on the fact we are surrounded by 600 year old buildings.

It’s not as simple as saying ‘do what we do and you too can be like Britain’. But you’d think it is from this thread.

They could just protest federal buildings instead

This was discussed yesterday here, most posters disagreed. https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5475126-to-think-there-shouldnt-be-a-right-to-protest?page=7&reply=149849800

Disagreement is normal in a representative democracy. Elections happen only periodically and representatives don’t always reflect everyone’s views. Protests are a legitimate way to express dissent and affect change in between elections. Anti ICE sentiment is growing and the more brutally ICE officers conduct themselves, the more people will want to strongly express dissent.

How to say you don't live in Britain without saying it.

This may be an unpopular opinion but I would not have behaved like she did. The US police alone are notorious for reaching for weapons, it's fine to stand up for something you believe in but seriously, is anyone shocked that he shot her?

I’ve lived in Britain my entire life.

Well given that srate sponsered summary execution without trial is supposedly illegal- yes.

LandladyofTheValley
" seriously, is anyone shocked that he shot her?"

Yes, I am shocked that she was murdered.

Disagreement is fine. But this is resolved via persuasion and then decided at the ballot box.

You don’t get to interfere with ICE activities because you personally don’t like the idea of deporting people.

I think it was an unjustified shooting, purely from the videos. That’s my opinion. I also feel she was reckless as to whether she harmed them by driving surrounded by people - that’s not advisable under any circumstances. If I drove like that while members of the public were stood round my car, they would consider me very unreasonable indeed.

It’s not a black and white thing. I think this officer needs removal from duties as I suspect it’s tied up in some form of PTSD from previous incident.

Then you clearly move in much more privileged and cossetted circles than me. Anyone i know would find that viewpoint hilarious. It's so far from our sphere of experience.

You don’t see the water you swim in.

I’m not privileged. I earn £26k, my ‘circle’ is generally a working class/lower middle one. Neither parent went to university, nor did I until I was 30 and sponsored by workplace.

My medical care is free, I have never even seen a gun in the UK, I live in an average area where the odd blow of weed is the only drug I witness. There are no gangsters in my local town. We don’t have cartels here.

That's hilarious. You would be correct if you stated that some British people live in a bubble, because from what you've written, you definitely do. And FYI, medical care isn't free, we pay for it through our taxes, something I'm sure you will say you are aware of.

Well enlighten us then. When was the last time you saw a gun? When was the last time you saw somebody tripping on fentanyl? I’m dying to hear about your dangerous existence here in the UK.

I didn't describe just "Britain", I stated Europeans and included Britain in that theory, the theory that, "we" collectively are mostly, "aghast". It's not a superiority thing is a dumbstruck thing!

Ah; semantics over logic.