To wonder if past trauma was a factor in the Renee Nicole Good murder and that, while not absolving agent, it shows ICE should select agents more carefully?

[Carla786]

Reading this from the BBC, I wonder if the agent was suffering from previous trauma. They had earlier been in the Iraq War and then had huge number of stitches after being dragged by a car while arresting apparently a 'child sex offender' illicit migrant last March.

Thus I wonder if, because Renee Good clipped them with the car earlier(as The Times indicates), shooting at her car as she drove past was less a rational decision borne from evil and more an instinctive reaction from recent trauma with cars on the job?

This is NOT an excuse. But I wonder if it also shows that ICE are selecting traumatised agents who are too dangerous, due to this, to be in that position?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdx4qd4d16no

What other agents? There was no one else there, he had walked past her bonnet in order to record with his phone (not exactly the level of attention to his job that one would expect from someone concerned for public safety while using a firearm). The only other agent in the vicinity was the one leaning through the window (who he risked hitting in the process).

She did not "attack" him. It's very clear from the video he took on his own phone and which was leaked to the right wing press that she wasn't aggressive in the slightest.

Honestly, I hope that you warmed up before attempting such an extreme reach.

This is what I meant when I said his supporters' only defence is "we've all seen the videos."

Those who are not 100% convinced of his innocence can break the videos down, discuss what points to guilt or innocence, and quote relevant case law and point out evidence such as the trajectory of the car and the positioning of the bullet holes.

If it is true that he’s traumatised and trigger happy as a result of it, he’s not absolved of anything. No one forced him to do this job. If you can’t handle someone moving off in a car close to you at 1mph, you shouldn’t be in law enforcement. It just highlights as you said that they’re not hiring well. Given the low criteria and the high numbers going into ICE, along with their nationalistic campaign I’m surprised violence like this haven’t happened more often.

Yes, it's very clear to see what happened. He leaned over the front of the car and murdered her. Then shot twice more through the side window. In order to shoot someone through the side window, he had to be well clear of the vehicle. Neither he, nor anyone else was in danger. He was an angry little man who lost his temper.

When a masked man is trying to force his way into your vehicle through the driver's side window, your attention will be on him.

Besides, she was reversing when the Jonathan Ross drew his weapon. The steering was on full right lock when she moved forward. The fault is entirely that of the ICE thugs.

On the subject of whom, do you want to answer for why they obstructed medical intervention? What pretzel logic are you going to twist to in order to justify that?

Good god, if we all carried guns in the uk and shot everyone in the head for pulling away close to us, Tesco would be a blood bath.

This was on the ice agents and the bad decisions taken.

Exactly. I was shocked when I saw the video of how slow she was going. The way certain apologists made it sound was as if she was speeding at him. The fact he called her a fucking bitch and they’re still defending him.

This killing was clearly out of anger and rage and ego, it was not borne out of necessity at all.

I am hearing they refused her medical treatment initially too if that’s true I wonder how they’re justifying that?

The brainwashed Trump hate is strong with you.

'Good god, if we all carried guns in the uk and shot everyone in the head for pulling away close to us, Tesco would be a blood bath'

How on earth can you compare this to what happened. Seriously it is bizarre the silly comparisons, a pp even commenting on the sex lives of those involved.

She was obstructing armed enforcement officers, ignored repeated instructions to get out then acted in a way perceived to be a threat. She wasn't shopping in Tesco hun. Stop minimising this completely avoidable, horrific incident.

Yes it’s hard to argue with that. I suppose I’m harking back to my training role where “ we” maintain our standards regardless of anyone else’s behaviour. ( I appreciate their standards are already in the toilet ) I don’t actually have any particular concern over his safety but I don’t think other law enforcement should have the headache of protecting him.

Thank God we don't have guns in this country. Getting shot in the face by someone who has walked in front of your car, and crucially NOT been hit as you drive away is something that hopefully would not happen here. He should be taken off active duty and compensation paid to her children.

Come on then, answer the question. Are you going to justify them obstructing medics? Or just resort to insults because you've lost the argument?

Im not insulting, im just observing. I can't be bothered to list but there are countless threads of this subject on here. Go view them.

Ooo - I can do that one.

A man approached the ICE officers and self identified himself as a physician, in the video he showed no proof of this. The officers declined his assistance saying that they had called 911 and the EMS were on their way. 6 minutes later they arrived and unsuccessfully attempted to save her.

So stopping some man claiming to be a physician and instead calling 911 is not exactly obstructing medics is it?

You appear to be averse to the tiniest grain of truth!

What possible justification can there be for the head of state weighing in with a pile of bollocks within hours if not minutes and completely shit all over due legal process?

Except she wasn't- they could have gone around and chose not to, the murderer could have chosen not to shoot, there was no threat and those choosing to minimise the murders behaviour need to look at themselves very hard in the mirror.

You have been told this many times and still persist in your misinformation.

They refused to let a random alleged 'doctor' attend, probably to prevent social media posting. Medics attended within minutes.

And during the 6-minute wait for EMS, how many ICE agents were giving CPR/attempting life-saving, and how many were pointing guns at civilians?

Why didn’t they attempt first aid themselves ? Former military surely are trained in treatment of gun shot injuries.

List what? Reasons they obstructed medics?

I do wonder if all those saying 'she should have just gotten out of the car/complied/etc' would be able to remain calm while a masked, angry man with his hand on a gun circles your car and another tries to yank open your door, shouting at you. How would you feel after this, now that you know that the thugs have absolute immunity and will face no consequences no matter how they treat you? Do you think the nice man was going to have a polite conversation with Renee, who hadn't hurt anyone and was not actually in the way? I'm sure as shit my instinct would be to get out of there.

I hope the good American people continue to blow their whistles.

If someone is critically injured and someone comes up to you claiming to be a medical professional, you don't waste time examining their credentials. Every second counts, you let them do their job. People rarely lie about these sort of things in a crisis.

Their vehicles obstructed the ambulance, costing more precious time.

"Probably to prevent social media posting"

That's the most stupid excuse I've heard, and there's some stiff competition on this thread.

The reality:
https://www.ems1.com/ambulance-access-delayed-amid-fatal-ice-shooting-response-in-minneapolis-witnesses-say

Heller estimated it took “about 15 minutes” for EMS to arrive and said the delay was because vehicles were blocking the street. She told NBC News that when responders were finally able to get through, they came in on foot.

I thought we cleared up the misinformation that "they obstructed medics"?