Ice agent shoots a woman in the face part 3

[Moontan]

Donald Trump has now said its okay to murder a woman. Because they are doing it for people's 'safety'

It is interesting how far humans will let themselves be abused by bad people.

I was watching a documentary about jonestown the cult.

Some people left the cult

They said that the leader beat people, raped people, starved people. He made them do physical labour for many hours a day. He demanded that they give him all of their money.

And yet still hundreds of people followed him.

People seem to keep supporting a person and staying there. Rather than saying "maybe i was wrong and this guy is actually a bad person"

I don't know - are you a Trump supporting American? If so, then sure.

It's the fact that people are trying to justify it that is creating the big threads.

This. No one is turning up on the threads about the Iranian protests and arguing that the regime’s brutality is acceptable.

But why would she tell her to drive, without being in the car, or getting into the car, herself? Was she telling her to drive off, but leave her there? Just doesn’t make sense. And she was actually goading and escalating the situation, which wasn’t the best idea.

You genuinely think the Iranian regime acting entirely in character in reaction to its citizens’ protests is similar to what’s happening in the US? Wow, you clearly think the US is even further down the path to full blown, violent dictatorship than I do.

The smearing of this non violent community-minded mum, by her own country’s government is corruption in plain sight, and we will all suffer for that.

I don't think I've seen any comment suggesting that shooting that poor woman was in any way "a good thing".

What I have seen is a lot of comments dissecting the video footage with different views on how the tragic shooting happened.

Because she was worried she was about to be dragged out of the car maybe?

Presumably on your alleged Iran posts you are blaming the protesters for their own deaths as you have done on this thread?

For everyone saying ‘he should’ve got out the way’, well the onus is on the driver not to drive if there is a person stood in front of their vehicle. Had the shoe been on the other foot and he had bumped her with his car, you would no doubt be saying ‘why on earth did he drive, he could see her stood right there’ etc. Plus he’s an arresting officer, apprehending people isn’t an exercise in running off if they do anything to escape, it’s literally the opposite.

Your posts are contradictory and don't make much sense.

And posts clearly suggesting she was asking for it. Victim blaming at its finest. Might as well justify domestic violence, too, while they’re at it.

It does. If someone was trying to drag my DH out of a car to do goodness knows what to him (we’ve seen what ICE do to people they detain) I would tell him to drive off. Because I love him and waiting for me to get into the car puts him in more danger.

I’m thinking of a situation when DH and I were in a crush on the tube and I motioned him to get out if he could. Because I love him. We’re both in a dangerous situation and he can get out.

And people keep talking about ‘goading’. I was in London, in a sea of people, about 30 years ago, with 10s of 1000s of people screaming “kill the bill” surrounded by a sea of police. No one was shot. No one died, even though there was rioting. The police weren’t happy, there was some shit. But we all got home. Because even goady, mouthy, dickhead protestors have the right to protest.

People aren’t justifying it though. I haven’t read a single post where someone has said she deserved to be shot. People were spinning the narrative yesterday on the first thread that Renee was a poor woman just going to the shops, and took a wrong turn into where the ICE agents were, panicked and was trying to turn her car around to go back out of the situation. Updates today, and footage, prove that not to be the case. Obviously didn’t deserve to be shot. Arrested maybe. But not shot. She should have stayed home and stayed safe, with her child, who has already lost his father. Don’t like the government and what they’re doing? Then vote at the ballot box when the elections come around. Turning up to what is clearly a volatile situation is not going to alter or change anything. It’s just all about poking the bear.

To quote Mark Bonnar 'Jonathan FUCKING Ross'.

And you thought it a good idea to venture out amongst tens of thousands of aggressive people, who presumably didn’t appear from no-where, and you would also have had notice of the protest a few days in advance?

I agree that the new footage doesn't really add anything new other than:

Disproving a previous poster that claimed she was simply reversing off her drive. (She lived several blocks away).

That there was no ICE officer stood in front of the vehicle (there clearly is).

I was protesting.

The Criminal Justice Bill was an assault on democratic rights. I didn’t chant but I did march.

Victim blaming again. You are basically arguing citizens have no right to protest against anything, only to vote once every few years and in between times to tolerate actions that are actually highly questionable. This was a woman unhappy about what was happening in her neighbourhood, questioning the legitimacy of what was being done.
https://news.sky.com/story/why-ice-agents-are-in-minneapolis-13491917

I don't think I've seen any posts saying that she was "asking for it".

I have suggested that maybe if your car is surrounded by armed officers shouting at you to get out of the vehicle then maybe the smartest idea is to get out of the vehicle rather than trying and drive off. This is not victim blaming but merely stating that she made the wrong decision.

You choose your battles. As a mother with a child who had lost his father, it would be madness to choose to walk into this situation, whatever your feelings on the issue. There are other ways to show your support without putting yourself in danger. It could have been anything kicking off - fights breaking out between the different factions, and being caught up in that. The situation is totally unpredictable. That’s why a vast majority of people don’t enter into these types of protests, because you have no idea what’s going to happen.

In what way is stating she made the wrong decision not victim blaming?! Surely the wrong decision was the one made by the man with the gun?!

I thought it a good idea to go on the anti Tommeh March recently- my kids didn’t and were worried about my safety - though never about me being shot by police.
There were 1000s and 1000s of protesters and plenty were aggressive to the police that I saw not just non compliant. No one needed shooting though.
And I don’t want it to ever be a concern anyone would get shot in the head in the U.K. for some non compliance and that be justified as they were protesting.
Worrying people think that would be just dandy.

That ICE officer should not have been on duty & he didn't need to shoot Renee as there was no clear or present danger.

Just the same old same old: very angry man pissed off with a woman who answered back, except this angry man had a gun.

Digressing slightly Trump says it's ok to demonstrate in Iran but not in the US - he makes a toddler sound like a reasonable, sensible and diplomatic person.

The USA under previous Presidents whether they be Republican or Democrat was a USA to be proud of but not now with Trump in charge. He's wrecking the USA to line his pockets & boost his ego.
He doesn't care about US citizens at all.
He's weak & a bully amongst other things.

(I am in support of the Iranian people & hope that they do overthrow their wicked dictatorship government & I'd like to hope US citizens do the same with theirs)

Edited: typo

I get the impression that the victim and her wife were quite confident and defiant. They talked back to the ICE agents and said they would be coming back, 'with the same number plate'. They had no intention of letting themselves be bullied or arrested. I don't think they considered that they would be shot - I mean who would, even in America? The victim tried to drive away and may or may not have clipped the murderer (it seems increasingly likely she did not clip him).That in itself wasn't 'stupid', and it was only 'the wrong decision' because the ICE agent was full of rage and prepared to kill.

Aww, yes. Women should stay home with their babies and leave the men to get on with running the country for them. Iranians should stop protesting against the regime and let their rulers get on with oppressing them. Women should stop provoking men. It’s madness to pretend you can stand up to anyone physically stronger than you, let alone someone with a gun- you have no right to expect they have been trained only to use it in extremis and not simply because you have pissed them off.

I'm not victim-blaming, I'm just pointing out that maybe, if you don't want to be raped, you shouldn't go out wearing a short skirt.

Maybe, just maybe, if you're drinking with a man all night, you probably shouldn't wear short skirts and flirt. I'm not saying it was her fault she was raped and beaten. I'm just saying she made the wrong decision in wearing that.

The danger wouldn’t necessarily come from the police. It’s more likely the danger would be from a protestor who isn’t rational or who is hyped up/volatile, and might have a weapon, try to use it on the police or counter protestors, then you get caught up in the violence. You don’t know everyone who is crowded round you. You don’t know what their motives are. It’s a huge risk.