Ice agent shoots a woman in the face part 3

[Moontan]

Donald Trump has now said its okay to murder a woman. Because they are doing it for people's 'safety'

It is interesting how far humans will let themselves be abused by bad people.

I was watching a documentary about jonestown the cult.

Some people left the cult

They said that the leader beat people, raped people, starved people. He made them do physical labour for many hours a day. He demanded that they give him all of their money.

And yet still hundreds of people followed him.

People seem to keep supporting a person and staying there. Rather than saying "maybe i was wrong and this guy is actually a bad person"

"FFS. The consequence of committing a crime is not and cannot ever be summary execution."

There is a difference between a sentence and consequence though.

For example armed criminals who take hostages may be shot in the head by a sniper as a consequence, in defence of the hostages life. People are often shot as a consequence/ in the act of commiting a crime.

This is not the same as a sentence of "summary execution."

Wow. That's deep.

Again. She didn't accelerate towards him. She was turning right and the car didn't accelerate until he shot her in the head from point blank range.

We're never going to find out his motivation, that is a problem, don't you think?

But if they had shot someone holding a knife and lunging at them?

That's not even remotely commensurate with what happened here. But you know that, I suspect.

See, it is actually hard if you apply thought. That's where you're going wrong. Because if you do, you have to try to reconcile that someone you support uncritically (ICE agent) behaved unconscionably.

Thanks.

I'm not going to even attempt to read the whole thread, but I assume someone has popped up to accuse people of 'changing their story' because 'Oh, you said she was terrified, but she doesn't look terrified in the new video does she?' When of course, neither does she look or act remotely like some intent on running down someone with her car.

No, we don't know what was going through her killer's head, but it looks an awful lot to me now like she made a man with a gun feel small because she wasn't in enough fear and awe of him and his mates, so he shot her. And story is the same - she was murdered.

I have a strong feeling had she exited the car the outcome may not have been any different..

she would have been dragged to the floor and restrained. We know that often doesn’t have great outcomes, especially in untrained officers.

any sort of struggle or attempt to resist and she may well have been shot anyway, by the officer “in fear for his life or his colleagues from a violent woman”

or if any one had gone to assist chances are they would have been shot.

if he drew is weapon with that ease, he’d have found some excuse.

we can’t say what would have happened if she took a different course of action. We could all be sitting her saying if she hadn’t got out she wouldn’t be dead.

she didn’t accelerate anyway. The car moved off after she’s been shot. Likely her body went into decerebrate posturing and leg rigidity depressed the gas pedal. That’s why you don’t shoot into a moving vehicle, chances are it will end up in an out of control vehicle injuring more people.

Exactly and it will be for the FBI investigation with all the available evidence and interviews to establish whether the officer reasonably thought that either his or his colleagues lives were in danger from the vehicle moving towards him.

If it determines he wasn't acting reasonably then he should be charged and if it is established that he was acting reasonably then he will be aquitted.

Can we stop with the guesswork and medical descriptions you've no idea what if any 'decerebrate posturing occurred', the point was, egged on hy her hyper gf's 'drive drive' she did indeed set off in manner that obviously seemed to cause a threat.

I really don't think these law enforcement officers use deadly force for no good reason.

Until he becomes a Fox news contributor, a US conservative speaker, or even an advisor to Trump.

The US right has a lot of form on this front.

Kyle Rittenhouse being just one example. Although his public speaking gigs did dry up. He flip flopped on Trump. No greater sin than that in the MAGA world.

Or George Zimmerman, who tried to auction the gun he shot Trayvon Marin dead with. He was acquitted under a stand your ground law.

I am going to read the full thread in a min( parts 1 and 2) I just want to say that I agree re the 'dystopian' feeling..globally. I also loathe these'heads of state' of various countries. However, I utterly despise the people propping up the aforementioned. I despise these people more. The clip of Starmer grovelling around Trump's feet picking up papers says it all imo. There are many many grotesque individuals propping up these despots.

See, this is exactly what trips me up when it comes to understanding "the other side". I cannot fathom how people can come to the conclusion that this is ok.

It wasnt 'summary execution', it was a reaction to her behaving in a way perceived to be a threat. Fine. Self-defense, I understand how someone could think the first shot was self-defense. My interpretation of the video was different, but without facts that would only be discovered by a proper and thorough investigation, such as how fast she was going, the distance between the shooter and the car when he fired each shot, all we can go on is our interpretation.

Her and her gf seemed to think the whole thing was a right laugh sneering and grinning at law enforcement officers. And? What if she was? This is the bit I cannot understand. How is that relevant? Why she was there and how she and her partner acted, their background or political beliefs, seem to be being offered as an extra justification for the shooting. None of it matters. None of it is reason to shoot her. None of it should have affected the officer's actions when he shot her.

not accelerated toward someone back to self-defense, I don't believe the videos show that, but without facts, we cannot prove it one way or the other; we could prove reasonable doubt, which is for a court to decide, but we could never have definitive proof without an investigation.

Finally, how are people OK with the behaviour of the administration in the aftermath? Regardless of whether you think it was self-defense or murder, you must surely see the need for a full and proper investigation, which now can't happen.

The President going on air, hours after it happened, and calling an American citizen a terrorist when he cannot possibly have had any evidence of this, is not OK.

Driving your 2 ton SUV towards someone is no different.

That's a decent balanced post.

I agree that the manner in which her wife and her acted before the shooting are irrelevant to the shooting itself. But it does disprove that she was "pulling out of her driveway " or innocently caught up in an ICE operation as some posts have claimed.

As for Trump's immediate comments on describing her as a "terrorist" this is a classic case of Trump opening his mouth before thinking as well as probably jeopardising any subsequent investigation/ prosecution. There is no defence or justification for the President making such claims at such an early stage with such little hard information

"Again. She didn't accelerate towards him. She was turning right and the car didn't accelerate until he shot her in the head from point blank range."

Well at one point she was reversing and then at a complete stop. So at some point she must have accelerated and it must have been " towards him" as she did hit him albeit a glancing blow rather than head on. I've previously stated that she seemed more careless in her driving than malicious

Nope because they don't acknowledge the issues.... the extra shots, Trump, Vance, denial of medical treatment.. read my post...

In any genuine debate, points are dealt with, in the case of pro shooters, they are not and its just a constant stream of "Well she shouldn't have been there...."

Who has said it is ok? What it is is a preventable tragedy.

Why cant you understand that her and her gf laughing and sneering displayed their utter contempt for the officers and impeded them doing their job.

They just didn't give a shit that law enforcement officers have a job to do and their crazy behaviour was obstructing this, then finally revving the engine and setting off when there were people all around her vehicle would seem foolhardy at best and threatening at worst.

I'm fine with the behaviour of the administration in the aftermath, Vance doesn't suffer fools in the media does he.

Well what else can we exactly say right now? Were you there?

Vance is the fool in the media. Along with his orange master.

If it does go to trial, the jury selection process will be interesting.

They called for medics they of course didn't let some random alleged doctor approach lest images appeared on TikTok or wherever.

Would you like to retract your comment about people like me probably like images of bikinis on corpses or are you sticking to that very offensive and rather odd opinion?

That isn't what happened. The gaslighting won't work.

A standard vehicle in the states. Now, if she had been driving a raised F350, that might be a vehicle size worth noting. The officer would probably not even been able to see her from where he was standing.

Who said Troll/Goady behaviors, wonder what she meant?