Ice agent shoots a woman in the face part 3

[Moontan]

Donald Trump has now said its okay to murder a woman. Because they are doing it for people's 'safety'

It is interesting how far humans will let themselves be abused by bad people.

I was watching a documentary about jonestown the cult.

Some people left the cult

They said that the leader beat people, raped people, starved people. He made them do physical labour for many hours a day. He demanded that they give him all of their money.

And yet still hundreds of people followed him.

People seem to keep supporting a person and staying there. Rather than saying "maybe i was wrong and this guy is actually a bad person"

Maybe you shouldn’t have been at that crossing? Maybe you should have looked more carefully? Maybe you shouldn’t have been in the way?

Would the driver of that car had the right to shoot you because you antagonised him and hammered his car and called him a cunt?

That's true. I'm not a fan of the way ICE operates, and of the fact that it seems they're encouraged to be rough/violent, with many of the newer recruits seeming trigger-happy/thuggish from what I know, but the basic concept of detaining and deporting illegal immigrants seems reasonable, and is legal.

I think there's also a difference between protesting ICE in peaceful ways, and members of the public interfering with and obstructing ICE operations that are actively taking place. The former is part of a democratic society with freedom of expression, but the latter is both dangerous and possibly not protected/allowed?

Chicago PD Superintendent Larry Snelling does describe ICE as "officers, they are agents of law enforcement"

"“Let me make this clear; agents, ICE, HSI, are officers, they are agents of law enforcement. If you box them in with vehicles, it is reasonable for them to believe, that they are being ambushed…”

https://x.com/FarmGirlCarrie/status/2009376572940206123

He was describing a different incident, but you take the point.

Thing is though, the mass deportations are being done without due process.

it’s been done on skin colour. Students there legally are being grabbed from the street for writing in the student newspaper. Visas are being withdrawn for slight infractions so you can go from legal to illegal in seconds.

they’re picking up native Americans. Tribes are telling people to carry their tribal ID at all times, but ICE aren’t being trained in what a tribal ID looks like.

They’re picking up people attending appointments to obtain their green card. They’re deporting American citizens because they aren’t white, and deport them against court orders and without due process. They’re deporting people who’ve been there years, married to us citizens, in the process of getting permanent residency, because they can just withdraw a visa.

they’re doing it predominantly in democratic states.

people voted against immigration, yes. But what ICE and Trump’s administration are doing goes far beyond that and into human rights infractions.

the protests are about HOW trump’s administration and ICE are acting, not about the deportations and immigrants themselves. People are realising they could be walking the street and find themselves in Ecuador before anyone can find them or get them legal assistance.

"Because she dared to challenge a pumped up man with a gun.
Women, know your place."

That is one Intepretation.

The other is that this tragic shooting was nothing to do with sexism. The woman and her wife were too busy goading the officers to pay enough attention to her driving and hit an armed pedestrian with her car out of sheer carelessness.

He was probably triggered by previously being injured in this way. As I've previously posted we don't know what support or psychological support assessments he was offered and many have commented perhaps he shouldn't have been in active duty.

He clearly felt threatened and too many drivers are oblivious/ uncaring as to how vulnerable pedestrians are. There are quite a few parallels to the shooting of Chris kaba in the UK although in this case the ice officer over reacted due to his trauma most likely. we'll have to see what sanction he faces, if any.

Yes indeed. Even the convicted Jan 6th rioters, who Trump pardoned, find themselves being shot dead by the Police. A traffic stop.

US police do shoot over a thousand dead per year.

Pardoned January 6 Capitol rioter shot dead by police in Indiana | US News | Sky News

Some shockingly ignorant comments here about the fundamentals of protest. Probably clapped whenever Just Stop Oil were arrested.

I voted for Joe Biden and he won.

The Jan 6 protestors couldn't leave it be, because they believed in a delusional fairy tale, they thought they had a right to stop the peaceful transfer of power for which the country has been known for hundreds of years.

Therefore all the Jan 6 protestors, who were actually violent, injuring over 130 police officers, 15 of them severely, deserve to have been murdered by being shot in the face.

I'm so glad we agree.

It sounds as though the victim in that case was aggressive and armed - I don't know anything about the case other than what's in the article, but with the context that he was armed with a gun, and got into an altercation with the officer prior to being shot, I'm not surprised. It's quite likely that the officer was acting in self-defence in that situation.

Were the multiple ICE vehicles being " boxed in" ?

If you see the CNN clip I posted above, the ICE vehicles had already driven behind the Good SUV and stopped.

It's this part I'm mostly referring to:

"Let me make this clear; agents, ICE, HSI, are officers, they are agents of law enforcement"

Because the implication on this thread is that ICE don't have legitimacy as law enforcement officers.

Reading up about it more, considering that the victim was interfering with an ICE operation in progress, it appears it likely wasn't a legal 'protest' but rather obstruction? Of course, she should have been detained, not shot.

For sure. I am just making the point that US cops do shoot an awful lot of people dead.

function of cause and effect in a totalitarian police state maybe.

Fair! That's very true. It's part of why I've said I would comply with whatever a US law enforcement officer demanded of me, politely and immediately - because from what I see on the media, it seems like there are plenty of corrupt or badly trained LEOs, and if you get the 'wrong' one, they might shoot you for blinking wrong! It seems like a different world, in the US. But then I suppose they also deal with a lot of armed and dangerous civilians because of gun laws, so are bound to be more 'twitchy' even if they're good cops.

Ahh right. And as I posted some way above, ICE were not able to do anything with a couple of women playing cat and mouse, so they decided to shoot one in the face.

The shooter breaking many of his own rules.

This is a Uk based forum. Why are you all engaging with @RingoJuice

They have said they voted for Trump. I am upset that they have been allowed to derail as they have.

Many of us have simply bowed out - while keen to have a respectful discussion over the murder - YES MURDER - of Renee Nicole Good.

This place sinks further

A few years ago I went looking for statistics on causes of police death on duty in the US. A really big proportion happened during the course of vehicular stops or chases, either by shooting or by being run over. I imagine that feels like a very real threat, especially if you’ve been injured already in that way

To be fair, in a discussion of US events, the opinion of someone based in the US seems pertinent, and the opinion of someone who voted for Trump seems a valuable one to hear too.

An echo chamber serves no one, and a variety of perspectives is a great way to build up a nuanced picture of events, as well as empathy for views one still might not agree with, but can now understand better. I know that personally I've found many of the comments on both sides on this thread have made me think twice about the perspective I hold, and had an impact on my views.

.

It's a real risk. Im thinking of poor Andrew Harper for instance.

@RingoJuice is American, but based in the UK (as am I), having lived all over the world, iirc from their other threads. So a UK based Trumpstan.

As in, it's happened once in the past decade in the UK and is so rare we remember the guy's name?

I get your frustration, I guess some people want to challenge this person, myself included. Although I recognise it is like banging my head off a brick wall. But even though this is a UK based forum anyone can comment, but I personally think it's worse if they aren't challenged. As others who come along and read this will see that the vast majority see what has happened and believe it is all wrong. At the moment the UK is a safer kinder place (although recognise we have our own issues!)

It truly does happen a lot in the States