Ice agent shoots a woman in the face part 3

[Moontan]

Donald Trump has now said its okay to murder a woman. Because they are doing it for people's 'safety'

It is interesting how far humans will let themselves be abused by bad people.

I was watching a documentary about jonestown the cult.

Some people left the cult

They said that the leader beat people, raped people, starved people. He made them do physical labour for many hours a day. He demanded that they give him all of their money.

And yet still hundreds of people followed him.

People seem to keep supporting a person and staying there. Rather than saying "maybe i was wrong and this guy is actually a bad person"

Holy shit. This comment is so fucking callous. Protesting doesn't give the authority the right to shoot you in the head.

At least not in a democracy.

If you say so.

There is peaceful protesting, and then there is wilful obstruction and provocation.

You do know the distinction, right?

OK, educate this fool then. You questioned shy she did not get out of her car when asked to do so. The implication being that she was shot for disobeying their orders.

It appears that I do, it's you that seems to be struggling to understand what protest actually involves.

And that is still no excuse for execution.

She wasn’t shot because she was protesting. Unlike the estimated 200 or so who have been shot in Iran for exactly that.

Michael Fanone, an NYPD officer of 20 years.

"This was murder. DHS law states you cannot fire into a moving vehicle unless there is a clear and immediate threat to life. You also cannot do what this officer here did and place yourself in front of a vehicle to then claim the vehicle was a threat."

"In the use of lethal force, a police officer has to justify each round. In singular, you cannot fire ten rounds and say the justification I used for round number one is the same justification as round number 10. It is clear that no one poses a threat to that officer or anyone else after that first shot is fired."

I'll take the expert opinion of someone with no skin in the game and 20 years of experience in law enforcement and police procedure, over 2 dubious politicians with an obvious motive to defend the actions of a mob they are on record instructing to "get rough with" members of the public.

Democracies do not execute people for wilful obstruction and provocation.

And now what?

Exactly. If the driver of that vehicle considered them to be “blocked in” then he clearly needs to go on a refresher driving course, given that another vehicle was able to pass by just seconds before.

Rather than repeat myself to several posters, I will simply let my previous comments stand.

Accept them, or don’t, it matters little.

Replying to my own post here sorry so I can make another point to

@RingoJuice

If the big heavily armed ICE agents felt they were being frustrated by a couple of housewives protesting against what they do, how about they post on mumsnet to ask for advice?

HOW DO I DEAL WITH A COUPLE OF HOUSEWIFE PROTESTORS

by ICETEAMBRAVO-6

What advice do you think they would get here ? Talk nice, call the police, ask for more training, consider another job, take the bus to work in plain clothes, wear a normal police uniform, or SHOOT THEM IN THE FECKING FACE.

Yeah. And here you are defending the shoot them in the face option.

Fair enough, that's your right. But it's not going to be a popular option.

I could try to educate you-in my own time on Saturday afternoon- but I don't think that I would succeed.

I think my attempt would be doomed, not because you are stupid but because you are in a tunnel vision situation. You reply to anyone who has tried to take a measured response by jumping to extremes.

In my case, you decided that I had said that I had declared that an ICE Agent should have Carte Blanche to shoot to kill anyone who refused to get out of their car.

Now, either there are some comprehension difficulties on your part or, much more likely, you will not listen to any other view and certainly not one that attempts to take a nuanced view.

You have entrenched yourself and prefer to draw ridiculous conclusions which are not edifying and do you no favours. I have seen you do this to other posters.

You may think that by extrapolating extreme arguments from posts where no extreme position is given, is clever but it isn't. It would not be acceptable in a year 11 debating society.

Calm down a little.

You may disagree that this unfortunate woman had any responsibility for what unfolded-and that may be true but denouncing those who think she might-and that also may be true-as wanting to give Carte Blanche to men with guns is really very silly and, I'm quite sure, not worthy of you.

Yet thats what many on here are saying that she shouldn't have been there? That it was her fault?

She wasn't driving at the agent, and she wasn't shot for protesting, so why was she shot?

Because she dared to challenge a pumped up man with a gun.

Women, know your place.

Agree. Too many people don't understand policing by consent. Shocking the whole thing.

I hope none of those poor, brave souls had children, otherwise certain posters will say they shouldn't have dared to protest and it is their own fault.

You’re the one whose only response is to resort to an ad-hominem attack. And yet you accuse me of falling below the level of a Year 11 debating society? Do enjoy your afternoon.

The only other reason we have been given, which came from the shooter himself, is that Renee was a fucking bitch.

If that is an acceptable justification for being shot, there are a fair few MNetters who should be worried.

I just honestly don't think it's responsible to encourage people to naively involve themselves in direct action and direct confrontation with armed forces who are on active duty. It's clearly going to lead to situation when things don't end well.

I wouldn't compare this to Iran, for instance. The protesters there know full well the danger they are putting themselves in, and have made the decision that it's worth the risk. I get the genuine sense that the US leftwing protestors have no sense of risk, and will deliberately inflame volatile situations. When they are detained they also get extremely distressed or extremely angry. It's weird - it's almost like a clash of two different cultures or species that have different rules and different body languages.

The only other reason we have been given, which came from the shooter himself, is that Renee was a fucking bitch.

This is I think where people fill in the gaps depending on their personal views. Did he mean "fucking bitch, I'll teach her to disobey me"? Did he mean "fucking bitch knocked me with her car and I thought she would kill me"? I honestly don't know and I think it could be either, and no-one except him can know for certain.

This was not a legitimate form of protest

Failing to see how your ‘distinction’ means that people should be shot to death

That's irrelevant we have policing by consent.

I get the genuine sense that the US leftwing protestors have no sense of risk, and will deliberately inflame volatile

You could say the same for the right wing protestors of 6th Jan no? Many of whom Trump has pardoned.

Yes that seemed like a spectacularly unwise day out to me, and also resulted in a woman's death.

Linehan, defender of women, here: