Ice agent shoots a woman in the face part 3

[Moontan]

Donald Trump has now said its okay to murder a woman. Because they are doing it for people's 'safety'

It is interesting how far humans will let themselves be abused by bad people.

I was watching a documentary about jonestown the cult.

Some people left the cult

They said that the leader beat people, raped people, starved people. He made them do physical labour for many hours a day. He demanded that they give him all of their money.

And yet still hundreds of people followed him.

People seem to keep supporting a person and staying there. Rather than saying "maybe i was wrong and this guy is actually a bad person"

It will be interesting to the consequences of that - as policing in democratic societies is via consent and this definitely throws all of that up in the air...as they will not be getting the cooperation from huge numbers of the public after this and if there is not a proper fair investigation with consequences for this agent.

I for sure am grateful I'm not an American or living in America at the moment. It's a disaster whatever you view on the events.

I didn't realise that he was shot dead by law enforcement agents.

I thought he was murdered by a civilian who is facing trial.

The killing of Charlie Kirk was wrong.

The killing of Renee Good was wrong.

Both things can be true!

Not my streets, I'm in the UK watching a democracy and ally full apart due to the lunatics in charge.

What country are you in?

Like all of these things, I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Was it necessary to shoot her in the face and was the officer trigger happy, definitely.

Was she a complete innocent, probably not. But her actions were more foolish than aggressive.

I think ignoring someone pointing a gun at you and driving away when told to stop isn't going to end well and both her and her wife have some responsibility for the situation. But I don't think an immediate shot to the head was the only option available here, although I know US gun culture is very different, and I can see how they didn't consider (in those moments) that it would end this way.

According to this mothers ought not to exercise their democratic rights? How about not murdering protestors and safeguarding democracy? And how about dealing with challenging situations involving members of the public in a de-escalating and professional war?

Kirk's murder was wrong. Good's murder was wrong. Both murderers should face justice.

Most of us wouldn’t expect to be shot in that circumstance

How did she make a statement as now not here anymore.

What a very unfortunate typo - but I'll let it stand as the connotations fit

So you are an American then @mouldygreencheese? What protests are you desperate to attend but avoiding - ones against abortion and same sex marriage?

There will doubtless be others who choose to act recklessly.

By all means, if this is the cause one wishes to die for.

And now?

Ahh diddums for the poor big heavily armed ICE agents. They could not catch a couple of women who were protesting against their actions.

Don't you agree that whey might have been better off calling the REAL COPS, if they were incapable of catching a couple of housewives on a residential street. Maybe the real cops could have put on their sirens in their marked squad cars, instead of skulking about being outwitted by a bunch of housewives on facebook.

I say housewives in a good way here of course.

Or you know, if the ICE agents don't want to be identified as ICE on the street, how about they leave all the cosplay stuff at home, and ask suspected illegal immigrants for ID in a normal manner, like how any police detective would.

In response to the ridiculously sexist comments about mothers having to be sensible and stay away form protests - nice to see that women in Iran couldn't care less

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15451417/Iranian-women-light-cigarettes-burning-photos-Ayatollah-Khamenei-protests.html

Having viewed the footage from the ICE agents point of view, I don't see how anyone can think this poor woman was a threat to anyone. She is de-escalating the situation.

He won't be prosecuted though because there's no justice in America.

I find it additionally weird that the Americans (and probably the Brits) piling on here to celebrate state sanctioned murder; are the same ones who would normally be saying 'don't step on me' and think the state shouldn't be overbearing. Go figure.

Actually, you can already figure- she was a liberal woman- worse, a lesbian- so in the view of a lot of posters, she deserved to die.

I have to hide this thread now as it is making me sad, angry and terrified in about equal measure.

But for me, the only crucial factor is whether the ICE agent could actually have been in fear for his life in that moment. If not, then there is no justification for the shooting. It is not justified by the women being there to protest, being confrontational or by not getting out of the car. Whether you agree or not with those actions, they should never, ever result in punishment by immediate execution. That's what Nazis did.

Nothing in any of the video footage I've seen suggests the agent was in serious danger or had any reason to fear for his life. But that doesn't matter in present-day USA, where Trump supporters will maintain that black is white, day is night, 'Leftists' are violent and evil, and where Trump can pardon any murderer or other criminal at will.

I feel like kindness, tolerance and celebration of difference are being wiped from the world at speed and hatred and exclusion are running wild.

What a sad time to be alive.

So you’re happy that the authoritarians have won?

Wrong.

One was an execution.
i.e. ‘the carrying out of a premeditated plan, order, or course of action’

Good’s death - tragic as it was - was a function of cause and effect.

Seeing as I don’t accept the premise of your question….

There was noone pointing a gun at her when she started to move.
The man pulled his gun and fired at point blank range without giving a warning.

Even if he was in fear for his life, shooting was not going to save his life. So no justification either way.

I don't think I said or even implied that and I am certainly not deserving of a snippy comment because you wrongly infer.

In actual fact, i don't think anyone has said or implied that so your remark sounds a little foolish.

@ChapmanFarm I agree with you. I’m surprised by the way this whole debate is being framed as in either it was cold blooded murder or the agent was entirely justified.

I think her death was an absolute tragedy and I very much doubt she was intentionally trying to hit the agent. However, by ignoring a clear and repeated order to get out of the vehicle and driving forward with an armed officer standing in front of her car, the outcome, however horrific, wasn’t entirely unexpected. Particularly the large number of police and immigration officers who have been killed or injured by vehicles.

There’s more footage out today of a woman with a 6 year old child in the back of her car (not in a car seat) who parks in a way to disrupt an ICE raid. I think it’s criminal to wilfully expose your child to danger in this way.

I have no idea what you are saying. Can you clarify?