Ice agent shoots a woman in the face part 3

[Moontan]

Donald Trump has now said its okay to murder a woman. Because they are doing it for people's 'safety'

It is interesting how far humans will let themselves be abused by bad people.

I was watching a documentary about jonestown the cult.

Some people left the cult

They said that the leader beat people, raped people, starved people. He made them do physical labour for many hours a day. He demanded that they give him all of their money.

And yet still hundreds of people followed him.

People seem to keep supporting a person and staying there. Rather than saying "maybe i was wrong and this guy is actually a bad person"

He shot her to punish her, not to defend himself.

Yes I am saying I hate the extreme views on either side, those saying she deserved it and those saying he set out to murder her. I feel it’s a tragic sequence of events

Precisely
His justification is shes a " fucking bitch"
Usual defence of homicidal males
"She's a woman. She deserved it"

This.

Agreed. Hearing those words on the recording is chilling.

Which video is this? Ive not seen it. The grainy, zoomed-out one is the one that looks most like he was hit, and it's unclear, due to the angle and quality, whether the car glanced him as he stepped around it or whether he leaned into the car as he was shooting.

The side on video of the same moment shows a clear gap between the agent and the car. The one from the front gives a clearer view and does seem to show him lean towards the car as he shoots, and then jumping sideways, clear out of the path of the now out of control vehicle, which does somewhat prove he had other means of avoiding harm than shooting i.e jump out of the way, which he did, ufortunately he jumped sideways to get better aim for the second and third shot rather than to aviod harm.

Witnesses also state that he leaned over the hood of the car to take aim.

The most relevant part is that he had other ways to avoid being struck by the car, evidenced by the fact that he exercised this after shooting her. US law clearly states that shooting a moving vehicle being used as a weapon is only permitted where no other evasive action, including moving out of the way, is available. This is demonstrably not the case.

She lived several blocks away from the incident. So as for the suggestion that she was simply pulling out of her driveway then it would have needed to be a very long driveway.

They had just shot her in thr face three times at point blank range. I don't think they cared much about her safety

It does make me so thankful that in the UK we do not routinely arm all our law enforcement officers. There is no way this situation would have resulted in a shooting here.

I would also point out that officers should be trained not to place themselves in positions where a car could be driven at them, particularly this one who had already been injured by a vehicle in the past.

This is along the lines of my thoughts. There's a big gulf between a lawful protest, and interfering with or attempting to block officials carrying out operations, and the latter is I would think an arrestable offence.

I do also think that both sides here are viewing events through the prism of their existing worldview, either the sociopathic, fascist ICE enforcer who shot a plucky, righteous protester in cold blood, or the deranged, radicalised Karen who attempted to murder someone with her vehicle and paid the price. The truth is clearly neither.

I think Renee was involved in a slightly tense but not incredibly aggressive or confrontational situation, but was probably too cavelier with the safety of the ICE officers in terms of her driving at close quarters, and unfortunately one of them had PTSD from a prior incident where he had been seriously injured, and then what happened, happened. Just a really ugly, unfortunate incident all round.

I also don't understand why a certain section of society objects so strongly to laws around immigration being enforced and makes spurious comparisons to Nazis.

She was involved in the tactic of protesters blocking ICE officers with their cars in order to prevent ICE from carrying out its actions.

Doesn't justify what happened but ICE are not an out of control militia.

If you were talking about the 1960s-1970s there would be justification for some of the above comments (Kent State 1970 comes to mind). But the picture now is different.

She could have chosen not to get involved, but she did, and paid with her life.

Most of us would have chosen not to get involved.

They are trained to do that.

there is legal precedent where an officer placed himself in front of a car, creating a situation where he could then claim self defence as he was in fear of being hit by the vehicle.

court found against him, it is not self defence if an officer creates the danger by placing themselves in the path of a vehicle.

so yes, not should be trained, they are trained not to place themselves in harms way.

He needed to protect himself. People have been attacking ice agents for long enough and no way should they just let these people run them over. She could have seriously injured him by ramming that deadly weapon into him. A car is a weapon.

See Usernamenotfound's informative post.

Have you seen his video? The car hit him and he shot through the front. She might well have been driving away, but she put him at risk when the drove while he was infront of the car. Its awful, but enough is enough and these agents need to be left alone to do their jobs. How three children have no mother because of her actions.

Well, you continually keep with the narrative she should have obeyed armed officers etc etc... I don't think you'd disagree with that assessment?

So you re all ok with Iranians shooting protestors who don't obey the Armed officers telling them to go home.

There is no difference.

On the wheels, even in the normal playback speed of the video's, its very clear she is manoeuvring the car to drive back down the street, reverses, turns wheel to the right and begins to move forward, at this point he shoots her.

On the image, it'll be people who support her killing and defend his actions who will be doing this.

She could have got involved by protesting peacefully. But bringing a large SUV to the protest is very dangerous as a car can be used as a weapon. ICE officers, already in a heightened state, misjudged her intentions, in that split second.

Thankfully I've never been put in this situation but I would imagine shooting would help stop the potential murderer within the vehicle to stop excellerating. This same agent was badly injured in a simular situation last year. Why should he allow himself to be run over all over again because of this woman?

Well, there is one thing we can say with some degree of certainty.

If people insist on getting involved when ICE agents are trying to discharge their duties (wherever you stand on the rights and wrongs), either by provocation, goading, or obstruction etc., this person will not be the last to be killed or injured.

Stay out of it.

The children are motherless because an ICE officer couldn't control his rage.

There's a big difference between protesters demonstrating in Iran or wherever, and someone bringing a large SUV to a protest. Vehicles can easily be used as weapons and have been on many occasions.

Agreed - if the officers were not armed then she wouldn't have been shot. Equally if she had got out of the vehicle as instructed rather than attempting to drive off then she wouldn't have been shot.

However the facts are that the officers were armed, that she did choose to drive off instead of getting out of the vehicle
and that it is for a subsequent enquiry to determine whether the officer stood in front of the vehicle genuinely believed that his or his colleagues lives were in danger.

Remember one officer had his arm in the side window trying to open the door and this officer had previous experience of being dragged 100 metres by a car after his arm became trapped in the side window of a car after trying to open the door. So it may not have just been his life that he believed was at risk.

Err he walked around the side of the car and stood in front of the vehicle, he didn't put his arm up or tell her not to move forward, instead he drew his weapon.

Not really the actions of anyone concerned about their own safety or that of anyone else.

Even if he was justified, that vehicle than careered off down the road at high speed, crashing into a parked car, he acted recklessly, regardless of which side of the fence you re on.

The correct course of action would have been to have place an ICE vehicle in her way, front and rear, instead they parked behind her car.