Ice agent shoots a woman in the face part 3

[Moontan]

Donald Trump has now said its okay to murder a woman. Because they are doing it for people's 'safety'

It is interesting how far humans will let themselves be abused by bad people.

I was watching a documentary about jonestown the cult.

Some people left the cult

They said that the leader beat people, raped people, starved people. He made them do physical labour for many hours a day. He demanded that they give him all of their money.

And yet still hundreds of people followed him.

People seem to keep supporting a person and staying there. Rather than saying "maybe i was wrong and this guy is actually a bad person"

Sadly we can speculate all we want, I really don’t think any of the footage justifies what he did but nothing will happen . Trump, Vance et al care for nothing but their own agenda. The previous posts talking about cults are probably not far off the mark for what is happening in the US.

The two issues aren't even close to comparable...

I'm not justifying her death, there's nothing clear in the footage which does this. But I would say these agents have faced many challenging confrontations in the course of what they are doing and are human beings nor machines. That level of threat absolutely increases the stress response in the body and fight/flight processes which they are able to manage to override every single time up until now. It will have been a matter of time until a misjudgement occurs. Incredibly dangerous to interfere with this - they're doing the job their democratically elected government has tasked them with.

It's a tragic waste of young life but I don't remember this outpouring from certain regular posters when Charlie Kirk was murdered, that was pretty much his fault for saying what he said in public.

Why am i not surprised that you tar all men with the same brush, as you do migrants, fraudsters and female protestors ...indeed anyone else you don't like.

Women make up about 89% of nurses - possibly more in certain specialities. Proportionally, it makes sense that they would be the majority of abusers.

Men make up around 5% of nursery workers, but in the only major study done, committed 60% of the abuse. That is not proportional.

That's just one thing that shows that men are proportionally a far, far higher risk to others than women are, much as they prove to be in almost everything that relates to abuse, violence, and aggression. Just look at the prison numbers. (In fact, I would imagine most ICE agents are men.)

Because in the absence of serious civil rights issues in the West (despite serious civil rights issues in say China, Sudan or Iran which are ignored) the liberal left who hate the West have to over dramatise.

So driving a car an armed officer despite being asked to get out of the vehicle puts you right up there with Rosa Parks.

Breaking into a factory, attacking a police woman with a sledge hammer, breaking her back and then going on hunger strike puts you right up there with Gandhi.

Protesting outside the local council offices because you got a £30 parking ticket puts you right up there with Emily Pankhurst.

USA has lost so much respect around the world just recently and I really hope that decent citizens are able to see their country regain some sort of dignity and civility some time soon

Note that people who say this generally just mean those first four years of the Obama administration.

Now those asking about the 2nd or 3rd shot, it well could have happened that he shoots once, misses and she keeps going ahead.

Once you make the decision to shoot, you keep going until you are certain the threat is gone.

OK - let's expand here.

She was shot because she decided to ignore a clear instruction to get out of her vehicle by armed officers. And instead drove her vehicle at an armed officer who will claim that in his opinion his life or his colleagues lives were in danger which is why he shot her.

If you disagree with that statement then please explain what do you think was the motive of the officer for shooting her?

Stop using Grok. You are giving money to an overt neo Nazi.

@RingoJuice What you said about shooting several times is something I've heard too - making sure the threat is neutralised. Although I've never been sure if that was genuine fact, or just TV show myth.

What I was shocked by, watching the officer's phone footage, was just how fast everything happened when I saw it from that angle (if it wasn't edited).

A 'whoa!' from him and then as he stumbled back/moved aside, the gunshots all came so quickly. Initially, from other camera angles, I thought it looked like much more of a decided, 'cold-blooded' execution, but seeing it from 'his' perspective, I could see how chaotic and panicked it might have been for him - how it might have just 'happened' in a mad rush of adrenaline and fear.

Note: I still think that as he broke protocol moving in front of the car and was a trained officer expected to de-escalate the situation, he is the one clearly at fault, never should have shot her, and should be held accountable.

Hmm. Where do we go when 100% of the crime in nurseries is committed by women? Ooh, I know - close nurseries to protect children.

Rage and indignation that a lesbian woman dared to challenge him, as evidenced by his "fucking bitch," comment immediately after ending a woman's life.

Someone who had used force to defend themselves in fear for their lives would not react like that in the seconds afterwards. They'd be devastated.

Re: shooting until the threat is eliminated, the second and third shots were fired through the side window. He was at the side of the car, at least an arm's length away. The threat was gone. He wasn't shooting until he knew he was safe; he was shooting until he knew she was dead.

'USA has lost so much respect around the world just recently and I really hope that decent citizens are able to see their country regain some sort of dignity and civility some time soon'

Honestly. Unlike here in the UK where government couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery and people get jailed for tweets.

The US is doing fine. Sad incidences will occur when people obstruct armed law enforcement officers and appear a threat. I hope lessons are learnt and people get out lf their vehicles when instructed in a potentially volatile situation.

I can't believe a pp likened this to tractor drivers and should they be shot when protesting. Well no, unless they obstruct officers and then appear to drive at them then they may well get tasered.

'Rage and indignation that a lesbian woman dared to challenge him'

What has being a lesbian got to do with anything?

Well, that’s easy. He was incensed that she was attempting to drive away. Incensed that she wasn’t doing what she was told. Was clearly not even close to being intimidated. Was mocking him even. He lost control of his emotions. He let his anger take over, and, well, shot the “fucking bitch”.

Having seen the footage from the shooters point of view, I’m not even convinced she heard the instruction to get out of the car. Not that it matters.

Now you're just being ridiculous. If you can't understand basic proportionality and risk assessment, I'm afraid I really can't help you. As I've said, there is always an inherent risk, but we can minimise it. So, if we need nurseries, then they should be staffed by the safest demographic.

Here's an example: Let's pretend we need dogs for some reason. In this world where we need dogs, Golden Retrievers and XL Bullies are the only dog breeds that exist.

XL Bullies commit 60% of fatal attacks on humans despite the breed only making up 5% of the dogs in the UK. Golden Retrievers only commit 40% of fatal attacks, despite being 95% of the dog population.

Which breed is much more dangerous? And if we have to have dogs, which breed would you think is safer to have around your children?

Honestly, sometimes I despair at the lack of common sense in the world.

The 'Right' is ranting and raving about conspiracy theories, stripping women's reproductive rights, and trying to justify shooting people for non-compliance.

Meanwhile the 'Left' doesn't seem to understand that the male demographic is a threat, get offended if people point out that provoking armed thugs is bloody stupid, and are more concerned with inclusion than safety.

It's horseshoe theory in action, and I feel rather lonely in the centre.

Firstly, she didn't drive at him, her wheels are clearly pointing to the right, the cars trajectory was away from him, he leaned over the car to shoot her, all the video's show this, yet you willfully ignore them....

On your question: Well, thats easy, he is a soldier, trained to kill.

He treated her as a suspected insurgent.... still you or no one else can explain why, AFTER he was in no danger (if we believe he ever was) he continued firing shots into her head.

The sort of thing he would have been trained to do to an armed enemy - remove the threat.

She was neither.

@OtterlyAstounding I can’t speak for all of the left, but I think most of the left are aware that armed thugs are dangerous. Most of us would advise compliance in that situation. I certainly would. All of us would say that nothing that woman did, NOTHING, justifies that man’s actions.

Hand on heart, I wouldn’t be part of the groups that impede ICE. No way. I’m not brave enough. I have a lot of respect for those people though. Standing up for what they believe in.

OK so in your interpretation the officer did not believe that he was in any danger from being run over.

He simply lost his temper and shot her for driving off.

But he seemed quite calm both before and after the shooting. As for the "stupid bitch" comment, I disagree with the "bitch" part but being surrounded by armed officers shouting at you to get out of the vehicle and then refusing to comply, is a pretty stupid thing to do which resulted in being dead.

We've seen the footage! It happened in a split second. Now you may have the luxury of analysing it, viewing slo mo re runs and examining where the 'wheels were pointing'. He didn't have all that info he had to act on what was infront of him, someone refusing to get out as instructed and then the sound of acceleration in his direction.

He carried on shooting until the threat was neutralised as they are trained to do.

Agree with all of this, especially "If you cannot act rationally in the face of provocation, you shouldn’t be an officer, full stop.".

Some people just don't have the right temperament to be in any sort of enforcement role imo, jobs like that need people who are calm, measured and rational.

Yes the consensus seems to be he's a cold blooded murderer who hates lesbians and protestors. It'd be funny if it wasn't so disturbing.

Now we know she was trying to engage ICE and made her grievance against them clear.
... As was her right as an American citizen.
I am very uncomfortable with the implication that the act of protesting in itself is incriminating. The hallmark of a true democracy is that protesting is a right. They already had her license plate. They could have come to find her later and arrest her if they really wanted to make the case against her that she was obstructing.