Ice agent shoots a woman in the face part 3

[Moontan]

Donald Trump has now said its okay to murder a woman. Because they are doing it for people's 'safety'

It is interesting how far humans will let themselves be abused by bad people.

I was watching a documentary about jonestown the cult.

Some people left the cult

They said that the leader beat people, raped people, starved people. He made them do physical labour for many hours a day. He demanded that they give him all of their money.

And yet still hundreds of people followed him.

People seem to keep supporting a person and staying there. Rather than saying "maybe i was wrong and this guy is actually a bad person"

You need to read up on WW2 history if you think people were not confronting men with guns when hiding and assisting Jews!

Thank you for that. It's terrible to think that at that point, it was possibly too late for her to try to de-escalate, because the agent had already decided to go against everything he should have been taught, and escalate. I hope he's held to account. But I just can't stop feeling frustrated/angry that she put herself into that situation unnecessarily, and now she's dead

The nazis executed people for helping jews, and this is (AI overview, sorry) of what happened to people who helped slaves

hefty fines (up to $1,000), imprisonment (up to six months), physical branding, and even death, while also risking mob violence from pro-slavery groups, with some, like John Brown and Charles Torrey, suffering harsh fates for their activism. Despite these dangers, they created the secret network of safe houses called the Underground Railroad, helping thousands reach freedom in the North or Canada.

Sorry, but I don't think blaming Renee Good for her own death because she wasn't wise enough to give in to moral cowardice is a good look.

It's a different time and a different situation, where Jews were being killed, and immigrants deported. I also doubt they were calling Nazis 'big boy' and saying 'come at me'.

I also want to add that in general what ICE is doing in Minnesota is disgusting. How outrageous is it that schools have had to close because they've been outside conducting raids.

Could any of us imagine having people with massive automatic weapons tackling and handcuffing people and setting off smoke bombs outside our children's schools?

Moral cowardice? Really? So unless you're confronting and mouthing off to armed agents, you're a moral coward? That's the only way to fight for change? I don't think so.

Ah, interesting! If it's actually achieved meaningful change, that's great, and I suppose gives hope for protests. Although protests certainly did nothing for women's rights. I read a lot about the police still being just as bad in terms of racial bias and violence, but I'm not from the US, so perhaps I'm just not aware of those changes.

I'm not so sure it is a different time anymore. My mum has always been convinced that Trump is an alien sent to cause WW3. She's said it for years, and I've always dismissed it as one of her barmy conspiracy theories, but it looks a lot less insane today than it did last week.

He has invaded Venezuela, given his police force permission to murder his own citizens with impunity, and threatened to invade Greenland, and what he is doing with immigration has alarming similarities to Nazi Germany.

She also thinks Bojo is an alien, fwiw.

That's not Renee Good who says that. The woman outside the car, who seems to be her partner, says something along those lines, although it's 'do you want to come at us?' not 'come at us', and then she says, 'go get some lunch, big boy,'

She also points out that ICE has their license plate (we don't change our plates every morning) and are perfectly capable of tracking them down if they want to make an obstruction case.

There are many ways to fight for change, but you're still victim blaming a woman for exercising her constitutional right to protest.

Omg, bless your mum, haha. It doesn't sound that crazy now though 😕 He's an absolute lunatic. I very, very much hope the US has their next presidential election without issues, and swings left again.

Yes. Thank you – I was paraphrasing from memory. I would never say that to any armed person, frankly. I like being alive, and that's provocative.

I'm also not victim blaming. As I said, the ICE agent who murdered her is at fault, not her. But I am still personally shocked that she chose to put herself in a confrontation with ICE. As a non-US citizen and mother, I would never do that, because I would be afraid that they'd beat, arrest, or shoot me, just as I would never try to rark up an XL Bully for fear it would attack me. It saddens and frustrates me that she was killed for nothing.

I just want to add to the conversation that I'm American, although live in the UK at the moment, and I think I can speak a bit to her potential mindset.

As a middle-aged, white, middle-class woman, I recognise all the issues with law enforcement in the US. But on a personal level, it would literally never occur to me that one of them would be likely to shoot me, particularly in the middle of the day, on a crowded street, surrounded by witnesses.

Things are out of control in the US at the moment, but this is a whole new level, and I doubt it would have occurred to them that the agents would have done anything more than write them up a citation and tell them to go home.

I'm not sure how this is going to land, but I'll say it anyway.

Ive tried to think of your view in another way. It's like the black community who have always had to be extra careful what they do for fear of being shot. I'm UK so the news and documentaries, with a few American friends, is my source of info.

Black parents have always had to make it known to their children from an early age that they cannot run. They cannot do anything around law enforcement because of the high risk of being shot. So in a way I can see your logic.

But protests DID help in the case of George Floyd. Whether he was a criminal is neither here nor there, law enforcement murdered him while he was no longer a threat. So protests can work or else I doubt Derek Chauvin would have been jailed.

Perhaps it's white privilege that she thought she wouldn't be killed, but I don't believe she'd have been there if she thought it was a possibility.

The scary thing is Renee's killer was pardoned before even an investigation, despite the media coverage is what I feel helped bring GF's killer to justice. Blamed solely on her immediately. Because she's a woman? A lesbian? Or because she was defiant? Who knows. What I do know is a President who is quite happy for someone to kill a civilian and immediately call her a fucking bitch despite apparently being scared for his life, is someone that needs to be gone.

I wouldn't even trust the voting system, either. Very scary times and I've never felt so relieved to live in the UK.

Much like your last comment, I can't disagree with what you say here.

Perhaps as someone from outside the US, it seems more frightening and dangerous to me, and so I'm disproportionately worried about getting shot compared to someone raised in the US and desensitised to the presence of guns, who as you say, may not have imagined they'd go that far.

Whatever the case, this shooting, and the government's response to it, are morally bankrupt.

Thank you for this - that's a really valuable insight. As I said in another comment, perhaps because I'm not American, I'm more frightened/wary of law enforcement than the average US citizen would be.

And you're right - it really is such a massive, disturbing escalation, having the government openly endorse this kind of shooting.

With me being also outside the US, I appreciate that I'm taking a very much 'well, this is wrong and shouldn't happen so people need to do something about it'.

If I lived there I may feel entirely different and be too scared to do anything. I've never been around guns. They were banned when I was still in primary school after Dunblane. Even before then, I had never seen one or known of anyone owning one.

I think I just can't get my head round a country like America having law enforcement do these things. I know if I went to say Iran, I would absolutely not do anything. But because it's US you think people are protected.

I appreciate you having this discussion and it's also given me something to think about.

Absolute nonsense, those two reckless women could have left their children without any parents.

My God, the gymnastics people will do to try to justify even the most blatant evil abuse if they’re trying to justify that they’ve been right in supporting this orange bloviating sphincter and his brainless minions.

it was murder.

but people apparently would rather tie themselves in knots trying to gaslight that this kind of thing is ok, than vote for a woman.

Yes, the only people I know of who have guns are farmers, but I've never touched one before.

I think I'm very cynical about law enforcement in the US, especially now, so I'm not shocked by anything they do, just saddened.

I appreciate the conversation too! You and other commenters have definitely given me a better understanding of why she might have felt safe protesting that day, and genuinely not considered it an overly risky situation to be in.

This was exactly my thought. She would not have expected it. Even in the video the other lady said about the car plate for when they wanted to speak to them later.

I'm not even American and would never think as also a middle aged, middle class white woman, that I would be killed by an immigration officer while visiting US because I mouthed off.

White privilege I know and I'm ashamed of having felt that way.

Well what are the percentages for and against immigrants in America?
I would imagine those who are against illegal immigrants are mighty pissed off with all the protestors anyway,especially as they are not peacefully protesting.

About 53% disapprove of Trump's handling of immigration, and around 42% approve.

At -9%, it's actually his best (least unpopular) policy area.

For the folk asking why protest etc, I think they have maybe forgotten that in free countries, we are supposed to have the concept of policing by consent.

"The doctrine of “policing by consent” emerged in the UK in the 19th century as a means of lending legitimacy to professional police forces. Its core idea is that “the power of the police to fulfil their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behaviour and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect”."

That passage I clipped from an article has the link to the UK concept, and yes, I know we are talking about the US, but the idea is still the same. From the UK guv website linked, we get this

1. To prevent crime and disorder, as an alternative to their repression by military force and severity of legal punishment.

The very first principle of Robert Peel's 9 principles of Policing. No repression by military force.

Now I don't pretend to know why Renee Nicole Good was out protesting, but personally, if my country is supposed to have the principle of policing by consent, and it appears to have abandoned that principle without consultation, then that to me is something worth protesting about.

I will try to post 4 photos below. Try to spot the odd one out.

Ah thank you for that answer.