To be frustrated that DD is struggling to find a job in her desired field while her friends on skilled worker visas aren’t

[Andiessock]

My DD is in her mid 20s, she graduated with a masters in philosophy over 2 years ago now from a top university in London, she has a BA from a top university as well. Her two closest friends during her masters weren’t British.
DD struggled to find a job directly related to philosophy or even culture in general, she did manage to get a job in the civil service but she doesn’t enjoy it at all.
Her two friends both managed to get jobs in the field they desired originally on graduate visas, now both are sponsored on skilled worker visas.
One works at cultural institute associated with her home country in programme coordination so planning and running events that promote her countries culture etc. specifically in literature and philosophy.
The other works at a non-profit cultural institution in a similar role to her other friend but a little more research heavy less events centred.

First of all I’m not entirely sure how either of these roles fall under “skilled workers”, they must be making around 40k to even qualify and whilst I understand the first friend being preferred over a British national since it’s a cultural institution, I don’t understand why non-Brits are being given roles in an industry Brits are struggling to get a foot in the door at.

Im all for migrants for what it’s worth, this is not intended to be slanderous to migrants, especially in industries which need the talent from abroad; but I don’t see how that applies here and in this case it does feel like “foreigners are stealing British jobs” (not a sentiment I typically agree with or would use any other time). That’s not to mention that I’m not even sure how these roles qualify as skilled workers in the first place.

AIBU to find this incredibly frustrating?

I work in a culture type industry OP - a lot of jobs in the sector want you multi lingual to a fluent level - well educated scandi will be - often 3 languages too . Is your daughter multi lingual? If the opportunity comes into place for under 30s within EU again, she’s going to be on a position to apply within EU but will be competing against a whole raft of highly educated fluent multi lingual people from within EU - thems the breaks -

if not then I suggest she gets a positive head on within CS - my sons friend has a masters, isan HEO in a very interesting area, involved in many really excellent projects of national importance and is on good money too - CS has so many opportunities to move to , with the right personality, attitude and work ethic and in her position I would want a role where you are’seen’ too, not a spreadsheet one WFH . Yes these glamorous type cultural roles may sound good on paper but actually many are quite boring a lot of the time and no more interesting than the CS can be ‘in the right role’ and with far less benefits and progression too - often only as good as their current funding

Yes, this was also the experience of my partner when he applied for his US work visa. A policy of not allowing international applicants unrestricted access to the US job market doesn't seemed to have prevented US based companies being successful.

Maybe they are better at interviews than your daughter?

Jeez crazy lady calm down! Take a chill pill!

Maybe they did a better interview

Why should I?

Possibly a bit classist, but not entirely untrue by the sound of things! 🤦🏻‍♀️

Is your daughter still applying for jobs.? There are more jobs out there

I genuinely don’t know what you mean. What is classist?

3416 is on the salary list yes - but friend is a researcher with a philosophy degree and wouldn't appear to fit this. OP said she was working for an organisation "like" the RSA but not that she's in the arts, so I think 3416 would be a stretch.

So basically you think your DD should be given preference over other candidates just for being British? This isn’t how the job market works.
Maybe the other girls have better knowledge, skills and are better at interviews, so your DD needs to up her game. Sounds like she thinks she’s above normal jobs too. What job directly related to philosophy is she expecting to get? Unless she wants to work in academia/teaching I can’t think of any other jobs in that field.

At the very least I believe a programme coordinator at the French Institute would fall into 3416, I work in a similar cultural institution and that is the code our programme leads fall under, even in the Philosophy/Literature field. Arts doesn't just cover the visual arts, music etc. and they are generally classed as arts officers.

On this case I agree with AnnaFrith. After graduating from medical school, UK trained doctors spend 2 years in hospitals. At the end of this 2 years they apply for specialty training posts within the NHS. These training posts are open to all, for example foreign trained doctors who may have far more experience and have built up an impressive portfolio to make them attractive to hospitals. This isn't about affirmative action or the best qualified person for the job. It's not a level playing field and a big reason for the recent resident doctor strikes over the past year.

But AnnaFrith’s original post was more focused on how patients can’t understand “foreign” doctors. If the issue is actually that UK trained doctors are leaving study and training without the level of skill and experience of their international counterparts then again, that’s not the fault of those who take advantage of the global marketplace is it?

Bringing in policies that will lead to workforces being less specialised or skilled is not the way forward. It’s not a race to the bottom.

Well, I can reassure you that we are in fact not at all 'nice' to applicants in the equivalent interviews here. While employers have to satisfy the HO that there is a genuine vacancy, the applicant has to satisfy them at interview that they genuinely intend to take the job, that they have the relevant skills and experience, understand the role, understand the rules around skilled worker visas and intend to live and work in the UK. This often means people with niche and specialist skills being interviewed by under-qualified immigration officers who don't understand the job the applicant has been offered, don't understand what questions to ask, don't understand the answers that are given and then reject them for garbled reasons. There is no right of appeal if you are rejected, only to an "administrative review," which is a lengthy process for which you really need expensive legal advice.

Interesting, thank you!

We don’t even know if her daughter actually applied for the jobs her friends got.

The whole whinge from the OP is ridiculous.

Social and Humanities scientist? Other researchers unspecified discipline? They’re both Highly skilled.

Many of the international doctor only have more skill and experience because they are not the 'exact counterparts' of the British doctors they are competing against - they have been working as doctors a lot longer.
British doctors complete a two year foundation programme, then have to compete for specialty training. If they don't get a job, they won't be able to develop their skills and experience. A waste of the money already spent on their education.

Nobody has suggested that workforces should be less skilled. Why would you think that prioritising training posts in medicine, or entry level posts in any profession, for British applicants, would result in a 'race to the bottom', unless you are extremely racist?

Oh for sure both roles are covered by highly skilled, WiggyPig said that in her original comment. We then delved off into the exact code as that decides the minimum salary threshold.
For the second friend the exact code will depend on the remit of her role and the type of institution but likely researcher if she isn't producing her own work. It was more just pointing out one of the roles at least is on the immigrant salary list which allows for the role to pay less than the going rate, as arts covers a wide range of disciplines.

For many jobs there's low demand (few number of jobs available), and high supply of workers. I expect philosophy jobs are part of this.

It sounds like the roles just wanted the best person and sadly that wasn't your daughter. Did she apply for these specific roles too? If yes, i expect her friends had something that made them stand out. For example, knowledge demonstrated in interview or work experience.

If your daughter hasn't been able to land a philosophy job, she needs to think about why and not blame others. I expect there are gaps in her resume. For example, truely entry level jobs are notoriously difficult to get nowadays, with companies preferring people who have some kind of work experience (e.g., internship, previous role in related field, previous junior role).

The UK should be trying to create more jobs and attract employers. Unfortunately, Brexit has actually hampered that in creative, arts and science fields that operate in global markets. Employers want the best talent, they don't care about whether someone is British or not - it is irrelevant to their business model.

Oh so it’s not because patients can’t understand “foreign” doctors but because the system used by the UK government to train its own workforce is fundamentally flawed? Nice bait and switch there - racism 101.

Spot on! The British Museum currently has a Hawaii exhibition - I doubt anyone working there is Hawaiian but yet they managed to curate an exhibition!

I have no idea what point you're trying to make here. One of the reasons I think the current system of selection for medical specialty training is flawed is that I think British people prefer British doctors, because shared language and culture leads to better communication.

Your use of the term 'racist' shows why it's rapidly gone the way of 'transphobe' and 'islamaphobe' and lost it's power as an insult.

You have misunderstood how work visas apply. You have to advertise and interview and be unable to appoint a British candidate. Only at that point can you consider a foreign worker.