To be frustrated that DD is struggling to find a job in her desired field while her friends on skilled worker visas aren’t

[Andiessock]

My DD is in her mid 20s, she graduated with a masters in philosophy over 2 years ago now from a top university in London, she has a BA from a top university as well. Her two closest friends during her masters weren’t British.
DD struggled to find a job directly related to philosophy or even culture in general, she did manage to get a job in the civil service but she doesn’t enjoy it at all.
Her two friends both managed to get jobs in the field they desired originally on graduate visas, now both are sponsored on skilled worker visas.
One works at cultural institute associated with her home country in programme coordination so planning and running events that promote her countries culture etc. specifically in literature and philosophy.
The other works at a non-profit cultural institution in a similar role to her other friend but a little more research heavy less events centred.

First of all I’m not entirely sure how either of these roles fall under “skilled workers”, they must be making around 40k to even qualify and whilst I understand the first friend being preferred over a British national since it’s a cultural institution, I don’t understand why non-Brits are being given roles in an industry Brits are struggling to get a foot in the door at.

Im all for migrants for what it’s worth, this is not intended to be slanderous to migrants, especially in industries which need the talent from abroad; but I don’t see how that applies here and in this case it does feel like “foreigners are stealing British jobs” (not a sentiment I typically agree with or would use any other time). That’s not to mention that I’m not even sure how these roles qualify as skilled workers in the first place.

AIBU to find this incredibly frustrating?

What was your DDs Masters dissertation? Did she publish it?

My DS has an Arts Degree + a very niche Masters. He is now getting job opportunities related to his dissertation as it is a useful learning and development theme at Undergrad level.

Thank you, I’ll pass this onto DD!

There's something about growing up in the kind of privilege where your parents think the sun shines out of you so brightly that someone of another nationality doing better in their career must be due to some institutional problem rather than then having a better skill set that leads me to believe your daughter is probably literally very privileged and pampered and may come across as such, even as a bit arrogant etc. I strongly suspect it's in how she interviews and comes across.

Maybe they interview better than your daughter, maybe they’re more skilled or better qualified. You’re making a generalisation based on one person’s experience.

Have you considered that the other two might just be better candidates than your daughter? Or may have applied for more appropriate jobs? Or may have performed better at interview? There are a million reasons that they may have got a job before your daughter before you start thinking 'it's because they're foreign'.

I am delighted that the UK continues to attract the best from Europe despite how much the brexiteers and mad racists have tried to do destroy us.

Did your daughter apply for many jobs in her field? Perhaps her friends did a better job of seeking these roles out and applying for them.

Yes I know - your link includes the jobs I suggested they have….

I wouldn’t worry about it, they sound like terrible jobs which pay a pittance and have limited progression so one is unlikely to earn enough to live anything close to comfortably, never mind raise a family comfortably.

Your daughter is better off staying in the Civil Service or, as she’s a top graduate, joining a competitive graduate scheme in London (law, consulting, accountancy, marketing). Unless she wants to be impoverished, that is.

So your daughter deserves to take their jobs simply because she is British? That's crazy. And you're coming off as racist. HTH.

I just showed this to DD (she still lives at home) and she was quite interested!

I asked her what her friends specialised in and she said that her French friend specialised in Meta-ethics (particularly around war) and political philosophy (authority driven morality) but did some post-existentialism work too which is probably why she was so attractive to French institution as a nuclear power and the birth place of existentialism.

How interesting, I had no idea specialisations mattered so much!

I think DD would much rather be financially impoverished than intellectually under-stimulated. She isn’t fussed about earning loads and would never touch law or consulting. Obviously I’d be less worried if she were willing to pursue a high earning career but she isn’t interested.

Why are you so massively invested in not just your daughters career but being so offended at others making a career for themselves?

Sounds like they have found and filled their niche.

Your daughter chose a degree subject with an average mid career salary of £33,000 and very very few relevant career opportunities and is surprised it’s hard to find work?

There are specific routes for European people, and the French institute will have a bespoke arrangement just like the British Council does overseas. I suspect the other person simply interviewed well and perhaps had more work experience and/or relevant undergrad degree. It’s tricky, we’ve all thought why is that person able to get a visa but reality is it’s the same in reverse, my own dd is overseas, easy to get the visa

Oh specialisations do matter, take ancient history you’d not hire a historian that specialises in the Ancient Greeks to work at an Ancient Egyptian papyrus conservation and translation job. The philosophy specialisations may be harder to distinguish than my history examples above, but they are as obvious as the above to those in the field.

Your sample size of three people is clearly overwhelming evidence that immigrants are given preferential treatment for jobs.

or maybe your daughter is crap at interviews and needs to do better? Maybe she makes the same thinly veiled bigoted comments like her mother and nobody wants to employ her?

I don’t understand why non-Brits are being given roles in an industry Brits are struggling to get a foot in the door at.

Is this person's native language not English? is your daughter multi-lingual? I could see why employers would prefer a multi-lingual candidate over a mono-lingual one all other things being equal, given today's globalised world.

I did a philosophy adjacent degree 30 years ago, so knew a lot of philosophy students. Of all my friends undertaking philosophy degrees, only 2 went into lecturing philosophy, and that was after MPhils and PhDs. Everyone else went on to do more 'practical' postgrads - like IT, teaching, research methods, law, etc.

What's your daughter's undergrad in?

Can she not intellectually stimulate herself in her own time and focus on establishing a career during her work time?

It doesn't need to be a high earning career, but are there no opportunities for sideways movement in the civil service from her current role at some point?

Perhaps they were the best people for the jobs? 🧐 Unless you were part of the recruitment and interview panel, you have no idea who did/didn’t apply for these roles, or why those who were successful did.

You just sound jealous that these “foreigners” were able to secure £40k jobs and your DD wasn’t.

It’s easy to say you don’t mind being impoverished when you’re 25. Much harder to accept when you’re 35 and trying to get on the property ladder, pay into your pension and want to start a family (not saying everyone wants kids btw).

But she’s smart so has probably (hopefully) considered all angles. Best of luck to her.

Im all for migrants for what it’s worth, this is not intended to be slanderous to migrants, especially in industries which need the talent from abroad; but I don’t see how that applies here and in this case it does feel like “foreigners are stealing British jobs”

Yep this defo reads as though you're "all for migrants"...

Employers find it costly and challenging to hire non British workers on an HS visa. They must meet specific criteria and prove that they cannot fill the role with a British worker. Unless you are trying to stoke some rhetoric covertly then it seems there may be more to this or something your daughter is not telling g you.

How in earth so you know what experience the Scandinavian friend has? Maybe she/he worked in related roles in the past or can show some sort of more relevant work experience or job related skills than your DD can.

Well I can tell you that when we recruit in my company, we pick the best person for the job regardless of nationality but if two applicants apply, one British and one who needs a skills visia sponsorship, and they are as well qualified as each other and we can't decide who is best suited, we would chose the British person. The paperwork for visa sponsorship takes ages to get everything in place, so it is much easier to recruit someone who immediately has the right to work without going through all the hoops of getting the visa sorted.

You Dds friends might also be working on a graduate visa not a skilled worker one. This means they don't need to be in a specific sponsored role, and can work for up to 2 years on that visa (3 with a PHD I think , though not sure). It doesn't lead to settlement status though some people apply for skilled visa status afterwards if they can find an employer to sponsor them.

Your making an assumption based on just two other people who you know little about. One of whom had specialist knowledge that your DD doesn't have, so she was never in competition in the first place.

So it comes down to just one other fellow student who got a job that you/your DD would have liked, and you've extrapolated from that, that there's an unfairness around skilled worker visas. That's illogical and, honestly, pretty unintelligent of you.

OP, I understand that as a mum you're worried about your DD finding a good job she is excited about.

But you are displaying anti-immigrant prejudice. We show our prejudices through the assumptions we make. In this case you've taken an absurdly small sample size with very limited information and instead of thinking "my DD's friends must have been able to find roles where they were the strongest candidates because of their specific backgrounds and skills and my DD just hasn't found that yet" you've assumed that they unfairly got their jobs and immigrants like them are why your DD has not landed the type of role she wanted. You're scapegoating immigrants for your DD's current challenge... and frankly it's a very common and predictable challenge facing philosophy graduates.