To be frustrated that DD is struggling to find a job in her desired field while her friends on skilled worker visas aren’t

[Andiessock]

My DD is in her mid 20s, she graduated with a masters in philosophy over 2 years ago now from a top university in London, she has a BA from a top university as well. Her two closest friends during her masters weren’t British.
DD struggled to find a job directly related to philosophy or even culture in general, she did manage to get a job in the civil service but she doesn’t enjoy it at all.
Her two friends both managed to get jobs in the field they desired originally on graduate visas, now both are sponsored on skilled worker visas.
One works at cultural institute associated with her home country in programme coordination so planning and running events that promote her countries culture etc. specifically in literature and philosophy.
The other works at a non-profit cultural institution in a similar role to her other friend but a little more research heavy less events centred.

First of all I’m not entirely sure how either of these roles fall under “skilled workers”, they must be making around 40k to even qualify and whilst I understand the first friend being preferred over a British national since it’s a cultural institution, I don’t understand why non-Brits are being given roles in an industry Brits are struggling to get a foot in the door at.

Im all for migrants for what it’s worth, this is not intended to be slanderous to migrants, especially in industries which need the talent from abroad; but I don’t see how that applies here and in this case it does feel like “foreigners are stealing British jobs” (not a sentiment I typically agree with or would use any other time). That’s not to mention that I’m not even sure how these roles qualify as skilled workers in the first place.

AIBU to find this incredibly frustrating?

So you think that your daughter deserves that job more than her friend? Did she interview for it then? If not I don't know why you think she'd have a chance of getting it. If she did then the employer chose her friend because she was the all round superior candidate.

You're fixating on nationality in a bizarre way.

And yeah, 'philosopher' isn't exactly a job role that most employers have vacancies for. It's not a very career friendly degree subject. Unless you want to go into academia.

So are you. It is not unreasonable to want a doctor etc whose English, or French, or Swahili, or Polish - depending on where you live in the world - is good enough for you to communicate easily. Very frustrating otherwise.

Then maybe more “indigenous” British people
should be prepared to put in the time, effort and sacrifice it takes to become a consultant? Maybe more of you lovely racists should spend less time moaning and more time studying/encouraging your children to study for these jobs?

I once had a very similar conversation with a lovely man who made points such as yours. He did not like it when I pointed out that he didn’t have a single GCSE to his name so unfortunately he would not be in a position to take one of these highly-skilled jobs that all these “foreigners” were doing.

Gosh OP I'm sure your daughter is very capable but to me this comment makes her sound insufferably smug.
Why would the CS be understimulating? They deal with all the major issues we are facing as a country. She has access to all of it being already in there. Why would working at a cultural institute be better than a solid CS job?

(highly privileged foreign workers, who are as you say at an advantage in the job market) so they can get entry level jobs in preference to native Brits

Could you explain why highly priviledged foreign workers would want to get entry level jobs here?

Why aren't DC looking for these themselves? And asking for further training in probation & professional development reviews??

I despair.

I have a master's in philosophy, but it simply isn't a degree that links to a job role. Has your dd applied more widely to any graduate job?

I think you are getting unnecessarily hung up on the friend's nationality, when you'd be better off supporting your dd to improve her cv and interview technique.

Also, I'm afraid having to do a job that you don't love as an entry level employee is just part of life imo. It sounds like maybe you aren't being very realistic about what job prospects look like for a philosophy graduate?

Are you saying that employers should be forced to take a British person they don’t think is up to the job ?

I never went into university, but I did an animal care course for two and a half years at college. Yes it would have been nice to have a job with animals and perhaps I could have tried studying to be a vet, but in the end I chose the civil service instead, and I've never regretted it. Yes it would be nice to work with animals, but to get anywhere near the wage I am on now I would have had to have tried studying to be a vet, and I didn't want to go to that level. The civil service has many career pathways she can choose, and if she sticks to it for a while, she'll get a good pension at the end of it.

Your final sentence is exactly what is needed to impress employers.
Most recruitment interview questions are competency based and cover a broad range of workplace experiences. This is why it may be best for the OP’s daughter to initially gain some work based experience within the CS.

I was responsible for recruitment within my own specialised area in corporate banking and I once interviewed an intelligent young woman with a Masters in Pure Maths. Unfortunately her expectations with that niche type of Degree were totally unrealistic in the working world and she wasn’t prepared to compromise.
There has to be a degree of flexibility from the applicant together with the realisation they are no longer at Uni and indulging their passion but entering the workplace.

I'm not 100% certain but I work in this industry and I think at least the first role, maybe the second (depending on how heavily involved in programme curation they are) may actually fall under 3416, which has a much lower salary threshold and may even even be on the immigration salary list.

I have already commented but wanted to add that as a manager I always hire the best candidate for the role.

I don't focus on age, background and so on All I care about is whether they will do a good job and have the legal right to work.

If the best candidate is foreign so what? why should I hire someone who is not as good as them simply because they are British? That is not good business sense...

Also the OP needs to remember that many Brits take the opportunity to study and work abroad too.

She is not doing her daughter any favour either that peddling the idea that she is entitled to a job just because she was born here and that her lack her job satisfaction is purely due to these pesky foreigners.

Really not the type of attitude that will get her anything in life...

I don’t understand why non-Brits are being given roles in an industry Brits are struggling to get a foot in the door at.

Well they have at least a language other than English and knowledge of the culture(s) they come from. Those are transferable skills.

They have experienced changing country and studying in another language. That is also experience.

And that is before they apply for a job.

I suspect you think a lot of people are racist, while being blind to your own prejudice.

Because she lives at home and has no idea how living in poverty grinds you down. Perhaps you should start taking half of her salary so that she gets a taste of real life. She sounds spoilt and out of touch. Is she an only child - does she expect to inherit your house and not have to house herself?

FWIW I have a BA in philosophy and linguistics and I now work in internal audit.

Tell her to keep her CS job, people are being made redundant left, right and centre. The civil service is, for the most part, stable and there are always opportunities for internal movement.

If your DD was working abroad she'd likely have better opportunities too; where there is more demand for people who understand the British culture.

The points about her being in global job maket are good. For some middle class and specialist professions you simply have to accept your job market is global. Niche, challenging and exciting jobs with renowed cultural institutions will fall very firmly in to that category. You and your DD need to accept that.

Have you read what I'd written? There are British doctors who are desperate to put in the time, effort and sacrifice it takes to become a consultant, but they are struggling to get training posts. I think our immigration rules should ensure they are prioritised over foreign doctors.

Ahaha OMG the meme is real! 😂

What meme? I love it when people make comments with absolutely no explanation.

Why should we just accept it? These are entry level jobs based in Britain. Why not ensure these opportunities are reserved for British people?

(Though I take on board what @WiggyPig says about the real reason for this is concern about the financial impact on universities if it was made harder for foreign graduates to work here. Yet another example of immigration policy being made for short term reasons without consideration of long term costs).

I would actually rather the person who is best qualified for a job got it-regardless of nationality. Actually, come to think of it, I thought racists hated “affirmative action”? Are you telling me you’re actually in favour of it?

Interesting reading this and comparing to my experience getting a work visa for the USA. For the US the question was very much around demonstrating your skill set was unique, added value to the US and why it couldnt be done by a US citizen. I had to renew my visa which had to be done in person at the US embassy in London. You get called to a booth and get a grilling on the above. It’s very intense. I have specialism and experience in a technical subject and it went relatively easy as I bamboozled them (I like to think) with technical terms and my global experience. The young girl next to me wasn’t so lucky. Think she was in marketing and kept being asked why she was so special and why couldn’t the job be done by an American with similar qualifications. She was close to losing the plot when I left and I doubt she got that visa. Have to say I can’t imagine the British process being quite so strict. We are too ‘nice’ in this country and it is often to our detriment.

Because the American economy is doing so well? The US is such a great place to live and work? Why exactly is being “nice” to our detriment? Do you want the UK to become more like the US? Are you happy with the way workers are treated in the US? Is that the culture you want to emulate?

I was offered a PhD scholarship before it went live. I had to turn it down because I was having a mental breakdown and didnt know if I would be alive in a years time. I'm pretty sure that decision will haunt me on my death bed 😂 However, I am alive, and I work in a job I love using my creativity and my research skills, which were honed through my education. The PhD is always being worked on in the back of my mind, and I read and engage with philosophy on a daily basis because it is my passion. I imagine a week after I retire I will be banging on the door of some poor university 😂 All that to say, your DD has an exciting future ahead, but there will be lateral thinking required!