To be frustrated that DD is struggling to find a job in her desired field while her friends on skilled worker visas aren’t

[Andiessock]

My DD is in her mid 20s, she graduated with a masters in philosophy over 2 years ago now from a top university in London, she has a BA from a top university as well. Her two closest friends during her masters weren’t British.
DD struggled to find a job directly related to philosophy or even culture in general, she did manage to get a job in the civil service but she doesn’t enjoy it at all.
Her two friends both managed to get jobs in the field they desired originally on graduate visas, now both are sponsored on skilled worker visas.
One works at cultural institute associated with her home country in programme coordination so planning and running events that promote her countries culture etc. specifically in literature and philosophy.
The other works at a non-profit cultural institution in a similar role to her other friend but a little more research heavy less events centred.

First of all I’m not entirely sure how either of these roles fall under “skilled workers”, they must be making around 40k to even qualify and whilst I understand the first friend being preferred over a British national since it’s a cultural institution, I don’t understand why non-Brits are being given roles in an industry Brits are struggling to get a foot in the door at.

Im all for migrants for what it’s worth, this is not intended to be slanderous to migrants, especially in industries which need the talent from abroad; but I don’t see how that applies here and in this case it does feel like “foreigners are stealing British jobs” (not a sentiment I typically agree with or would use any other time). That’s not to mention that I’m not even sure how these roles qualify as skilled workers in the first place.

AIBU to find this incredibly frustrating?

I don't think the OP is blaming her daughters friends, she is blaming the policies. The friends are simply what made the effects of the policies clear to her.

I think you are right that this effectivly takes all the problems with allowing a free for all of unskilled workers, and moves it up to the middle classes. I would be really interested if this is very much at the root of why the UK is now seeing so much more of the population concerned about immigration. It's one thing when the working classes complain about being pushed out of jobs, training, and having their wages suppressed - they can just be accused of being racists.

When that begins to happen to the middle classes however, well, people can try as we see in this thread, but sheer numbers of people being affected are going to start to be a factor.

She could write a very academic book in her spare time from her under stimulating civil service day job.

That’s because many of the foreigners are often legitimately better! 🤭

How so? The OP is factually correct, there is nothing preventing an employer for hiring a foreign candidate over a completely qualified British one.

It's fascinating the ways in which xenophobia manages to inveigle its way into people's thinking.

YABVVU

HTH

I am a doctor, and I know many patients prefer British trained doctors, and often struggle to understand foreign trained doctors, because they tell me. Constantly.

It's interesting as the middle classes are significantly more propagandised into accepting it

Absolutely this. Maybe your daughter doesn’t interview well OP? Maybe the other candidates are more intelligent/skilled/personable/interesting? Maybe they have better CVs? Or maybe, unlike you, the organisations that gave them these jobs focused on finding the right person for the job rather than taking nationality or ethnicity into account? Your daughter is not owed a job because she’s British - she needs to fight for it like anybody else.

Then campaign for the re-introduction of the RLMT. Labour were going to but ultimately didn't - there's a very interesting article on it here: https://www.smf.co.uk/commentary_podcasts/cant-live-with-it-cant-live-without-it-the-strange-case-of-the-resident-labour-market-test/

I suspect the reason they took it back off the table is that it would make the UK a far less attractive place for foreign students, and without foreign students, an awful lot of universities go bust. I doubt the govt is keen to accept either the economic knock right now or the optics of university education being pared back to the one-percenters on their watch.

Top jobs are pretty much always internationally advertised, the middle classes are well used to having to compete against international candidates it comes as no surprise. In my field I worked in the UK with experts recruited from all over the world and I retired some time ago, nothing new about it. Same as a lot of UK people go abroad to pursue their careers.

Hmm what is the ethnographic and demographic makeup of these “patients” that are “constantly” telling you this?

You're not wrong to recognise that your daughter as a Masters educated woman seeking graduate work is competing at a global not a local level. You are wrong to think the answer is to blame her friends though.

Brilliant answer overall @WiggyPig - thank you for taking the trouble to explain the complexity of overseas graduate employment conditions in the UK (I know some of it from my postgrad students) but your final point is also very astute.

The UK is re-entering a version of Erasmus - when we were still part of the EU, what I noticed about my UK-born undergrads & postgrads is that they were far less internationally oriented than their EU peers, who jumped at the chance to study in the UK - and not just in English language studies.

Probably mainly older patients who's hearing is not perfect and find it difficult to cope with accents.

I'm mainland European and get jobs because/when I have relevant experience that other people don't, write a decent application, and interview well 🤷

Not all graduates are equal. Not all Philosophy degrees are equal. They may have studied different modules which has equipped them with the ability to demonstrate more knowledge in areas of interest to those employers. They may have had work experience which puts them at an advantage. They might write better CVs/application forms. They might interview better. They might just be better people for the jobs.
Not sure if it has changed but it used to be that employers had to sponsor and pay a significant proportion of the costs associated with skilled migrant workers’ visas. Not sure why they would do that if your DD could be hired without the expense and hassle, unless they had something more to offer…..

See my second sentence.

I'm an immigrant. I know quite a few. No one is privy to personal information about one's immigration status or right to work or visa situation unless it is shared.

Good luck to the OP's daughter in finding a job that her mum thinks she is deserving of.

Has @Andiessock confirmed that her DD actually applied for either of these jobs????

I suspect you have have already guessed, and for some reason don't think a preference among white, working-class, indigenous British people for doctors they can communicate with easily is valid.

And I suspect you’re a little bit racist.

It is quite hard to find good enough candidates for the grad positions I hire for, we are hiring mostly from Oxbridge/Imperial and believe it or not interview plenty who don’t meet the bar we want. We pay all grads the same (‘a lot’ for a starting salary) regardless of whether they need a visa or not.

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice, can you tell me more about the cheap courses within the civil service to broaden experience? Dc is in the CS and looking to gain more experience and i would pass this information onto them.
Thank you.

Agreed. I have a similar educational background and now work in Data / AI.

@Andiessock
The ignorance and bigotry do not indicate an intellectual capacity to advise your DD on this matter.

Luckily there’s been some excellent advice by posters here, maybe advise her to seek career guidance and counselling.

So theory of knowledge and ethics (of moral judgements). That actually fits a job in the civil service quite well. Presumably she has joined at admin level (i.e. potentially a decision maker's role). If you do a degree in philosophy (as I did) unless you are brilliant you are unlikely to get a job in the philosophy field i.e. in academia, even with a Ph.D.. Your DD should look at opportunities in the job she actually has (which will carry with it substantial benefits like pension and meritocratic advancement) and explore which areas of the civil service would suit her interests (and apply for those jobs) rather than hoping for a job in the arts/culture where a philosophy degree is of less relevance unless you've studied aesthetics etc.

Among dd’s graduate friends it seems as tricky a job market for those on visas as UK resident, across a range of subjects.