To allow my DD to follow her ridiculous "life plan"

[14HoursToSaveTheEarth]

This is not really an AIBU. I'm asking for advice/views. Long post so sorry.

My DD (16) is a number of things including confident and articulate. This may sound harsh but she is also in many ways immature and gullible, and very, very lazy. She left secondary school without a single GCSE of any grade and to be honest I think it is safe to say that this will continue and she will leave all education without any qualifications. Importantly, she does not care. She lives a privileged life in a seven bedroom house where she wants for nothing, but her attitude is that work is for fools and she plans to live off the government until she gets married and they look after her. You have no idea how long we have spent trying to dispel this fantasy and educate her as to how life will be in the real world if she doesn't change her attitude but she thinks we made our life choices (like going to university, gaining multiple degrees and working long hours at good jobs to provide her with this life) and she will make hers.

So she now has a "friend" who she met online via other friends who has had a hard time in life. She is also 16 but she cannot live at home due to her family circumstances, so he has a flat paid for by the local authority (according to DD). This friend has it sounds serious mental health issues, is a self-harmer and has attempted suicide several times, and recently had a miscarriage. I do not think it was her first pregnancy. The friend lives in East London. We live in the countryside several hours from London.

DD and her friend have now hatched a master plan whereby when they turn 18 DD will move in with her friend in London and they will both live off of benefits and never have to work, or at most they will get a job at MacDonalds.They think that this is them beating the system and they laugh at people planning to go to university and get jobs.

I could write this off as a teenage fantasy, which it probably is, but I constantly see threads on MN about young women who are living the life she describes and it makes me despair that this plan may become a reality. I don't even know what to do if we cannot talk her out of it. Do we drive her to London and try to be "supportive" (though I would not give her money other than in an emergency) in order to still be part of her life when it all goes wrong, or do we say "fine, make your choices but stand on your own two feet then" and see her sink possibly out of our lives forever?

DD also has two younger siblings who idolise her and I really worry about the message this sends to them, if she messages them about her amazing life in London sticking a finger up at everything we are trying to get them to work towards.

For full disclosure, as I don't want to be accused of drip-feeding, my DD was adopted at age three.

I know this will probably all come to nothing but it horrifies me when I hear her planning for a future that I know will be so bleak when for so many years we had such high hopes for her future. She has tried vaping and tried alcohol at a party but she hated both, so does not drink or smoke, has never tried drugs and is a virgin. However, she is incredibly stubborn and I have seen her turn viciously on people, including teachers, who do not allow her to have her own way (though thankfully this is not often), and so I can see her following through on this ridiculous plan out of sheer willfulness.

Before anyone asks, DH and I are fully on the same page on this issue. We are both equally horrified at her so-called plans but at a loss as to how to curtail them when she listens to everything we say and then simply says that she has her own mind and when she is 18 we cannot stop her. And she is right.

Beside this ridiculous plan and a general laziness with respect to anything concerning study, she is actually a pretty good kid most days (the moments of stubbornness I mentioned above are momentous but rare), so I have no reason to do anything to punish her. She is allowed to have friends and crazy ideas.

So please MN, your views:

Am I being UNREASONABLE and should let her spread her wings and move in with an unstable friend and live a life that horrifies me, putting her safety at risk in the hope that she sees sense and comes home, or

am I being REASONABLE and should do everything to prevent her from moving in with her friend when she is 18, even if that drives a wedge between us, hoping that she eventually understands this is for her benefit?

or should we do something else entirely?

Has she ever had any kind of therapy? This is key to her understanding of her place in the world, which I expect she is trying to work out at the moment. This is not a criticsim you at all and thank goodness she has parents who care for her. I am having similar issues and I have badgered my Local Authority for support through the Post Adoption Team. I have been able to secure some really robust therapy for my son.

LOLs at the idea of adopters getting fast tracked for help.

OP, I’m an adopter and this is one of my big fears. My DD is 9 and infamously stubborn. I can absolutely imagine her taking this mindset about school and work (year 5 is a battle!). I don’t have any advice as I’ve not been in your position but if I fast forward then I think I’d try your highly interventionist approach first, and then if that didn’t work, be ready to catch her when she falls on her arse.

Have you come across a support organisation called We Are Family? I notice they have an event coming up soon on adopted teens and young adults.

At college with no GCSE’s? How did that work, or is she just repeating?

Where has she got the idea that people can just "live off benefits and do nothing" ?
Who has taught her that? It's a strange thing for a 16 year old to have the concept of.

Why lol? That’s certainly been my experience in my local authority.

I don’t think normal teen advice applies here. Your DD will be more complex as she was adopted at 3 and potentially has trauma or attachment issues that could affect her behaviour now. You sound like a wonderful caring mum by the way and this must be very hard. try the adoption board?

The rule is if you are not in education then you get a job.

why is she allowed to doss about the house using the internet to hatch her plans. Get her down the job centre.

take the router when you leave for work. Time to live in the real world. If she wants a phone she can pay for it from her UC money. Get her down the job centre they’ll have her on an unpaid placement real soon.

you don’t even need to be harsh or poopoo her plans. But if she wants to deal with UC and all their hassle might as well go there and see what it’s like

Does she have letter box contact with her birth family, does she want this, has she found them on social media, has there been a clear narrative about her birth parents throughout her childhood?

One of the significant factors in breakdowns in adoption is avoidance of the past and not allowing children to be curious or interested about their family.

Is she frightened of her birth family in some way? Or the idea of them at least?

As an adoptee, I think the teenage years are really really hard for an adopted person - even if she hasn’t yet realised her behaviour is down to her adoption / start of life. I know I didn’t realise it age 16. She is coming to terms with it, she will have trauma and however privileged a life you are providing her she will be in some emotional turmoil. Things are changing for her in her life, growing into an adult, and that opens a lot of thoughts and questions in her mind.

Firstly why is she doing so poorly at school. You should look at alternative settings if it isn’t working. Private or smaller classes, extra tuition etc. She does need to get basic qualifications at least.

You're right. Without any grades you cannot do vocational courses, so at the moment she could not study hair/makeup/childcare/administration/construction/sport, never mind anything academic.

The only course open to her is partly resits and partly about preparing people for life. The hope is that the resits will allow her to do other courses (they won't) while the other elements have her ready for the labour market when she hits 18.

To be honest, the law says she has to be in college or an apprenticeship and I think this is the option they provide for people that have no other options. With the greatest respect to them, most other people on the course clearly have additional needs that explain their participation.

I wouldn't do much at this stage except nod and maybe say 'Mmm, your friend must have quite a serious health problem, poor girl; of course you don't, so you may have more of a problem claiming benefits'. Try not to fall out over it. The harder you try to push her in another direction the more she will resist. You might also say 'I guess that you are looking for something other than financial success, being willing to live in a very modest way without luxuries.' Or 'Of course we'll support you, I will look out some old plates and towels and so on for your new flat'.

This is a generational thing as my 16 year old son made a comment this week about the benefits kicking in when he’s 18! This generation are all about working smarter not harder. You have to remember also that it’s bloody hard for these young ones now. They have been stopped from going to work at 16 and forced into education where many don’t want to be. There are not enough apprenticeships so in those informative years post 16 they are lost.

I think all you can do is to stop the privileges where you can as soon as she turns 18. This is my approach with my son he’s currently at college and he does t like it. But I’ve told him that if he’s not then he doesn’t get anything off me. Once he’s 18 then all spends etc stop if he hasn’t got a job/ in education. If he claims
benefits then he will be paying me bored and lodgings.

I’d be tempted to let her go off and do it! It’s all very well her friend has her flat paid for, I doubt very much if this includes bills, food etc! The benefits they would both bring in would hardly fund the lifestyle I think they are desiring. I don’t know if you give her some kind of allowance- but from now on give her the monthly stipend of £338 which is the 2026 rate of Universal Credit for under 25s. But before the full amount is paid by you, deduct the costs of bills she owes, food, laundry services… maybe a short sharp shock might be needed

Is she embarrased or ashamed of this?

Lots of children that I work with wont engage with these functional skills and work prep courses because as you say the majority of the children on the course are lower functioning/LD/SEN and most kids dont want to be associated with that.

It sounds like she's pushing the boundaries. Keep encouraging her going to college and encourage a part time job, reduce the amount you are willing to give for clothes etc. There won't be an easy solution but this could easily be a dramatic flash in the pan and she may not even be friends with the Internet person in a year and a half.

As pp said, 16 year olds say a lot and sometimes this mean very little and sometimes it means a lot, it's often hard to know which is which. Just keep encouraging and see what happens.

As far as your younger DC are concerned, just challenge any poor behaviour that older DC exhibits.

Some previous posters have been quite scathing about her attitude but finding your feet as a teenager and being an adopted child is no doubt very hard for some kids so personally I would ignore the entitlement and try to get to the root of where her disillusionment lies (not easy!).

Lots of children who were adopted have problems during their teen years as they try to work out who they are. It is a hard life stage even for children who haven’t been adopted, so it is not really surprising. Most local authorities offer post adoption support I believe.

What is the college actually doing to help her though?
Is she doing Foundation Level English and Maths? These are the basics that she needs to have to do anything in life - including working in McDonald's.
The college should be making sure she understands this and helping her with a plan for what her next stage of education/life could be.
Are they doing anything to help her?
Also it sounds like she also has "additional needs". When did her school realise she wasn't doing work for her GCSEs? Did they offer any help?

I think this is because she has gravitated to at least two girls who have had traumatic lives and are unable to live with their families due to abuse or neglect and they are telling her that this is possible.

She does not have access to any inappropriate apps or websites but there is no way of monitoring what teenagers chat about nor the accuracy of the stories they fill each others heads with.

And in fairness I do see a lot of threads on here about people who seem to do just that, though I wouldn't want their life.

This. The being extremely bright and capable but not able to put that across in educational setting is often indicative of ADHD in girls. Has anyone at school ever brought it up?

Hopefully she’ll grow out of it. I’d be tempted to respond with a “hmm, that’s nice dear” when she brings it up and change the subject. Walk away from arguments and try to do some really positive things with her. It sounds like it could be a cry for attention.

????????
Are you for real?

Has she actually been to East London? Can you spend a day and get the train down with her and walk around areas with high rise living. You could also get an appointment with an estate agent pretending that you want to rent a cheap little flat for them to show you a couple of properties.

Once she can see this lifestyle for herself she might have a change of heart.

The key here is the information about adoption. This is not your average teenager. We are talking about a child with adverse child experiences/trauma, possible neuro divergence, neurobiological changes to the brain in utero, attachment trauma...and oh so much more.

I am sure you know about all this. I think you need more advice about dealing with this from a therapeutic perspective. Do you have any therapeutic involvement as a family?

It's quite common for adopted children to have fairytale scenarios. It's common for them not to take advice because they can see themselves as 'strong' and invincible even if they are actually very vulnerable. It's common for them to 'bond' with other kids in vulnerable situations. Their inside person doesn't match their chronological age.

Telling her how things will go will not work because she will not believe you regardless of any evidence you may have. Actual lived experience is probably all that will influence her although in my experience they often find it hard to admit when it's going tits up.

I heard a therapist once say support fully anything positive in your kids lives. Don't support negative things.

If you haven't started talking about contraception, I'd start pronto

You have two years from her plans. I personally would have on repeat that you'll be there for her....a sort of "Wow those are big plans! Don't forget if it's not working out for any reason at all you've got a place here" I wouldn't throw any money at her. You can't reason with this. I know it's tempting to try but it's going to lead to disconnecting and she needs connection. It's hard when we try to reason not to tip into operating out of fear.... totally understandable.

Obviously you don't know me from Adam but I have I have been involved in the fostering and adoption world for over twenty years. I also have a daughter on a SGO who is 14.

Is she lashing out at being adopted? Random thought!

She wants an alternative life. She is not the first and…..etc, etc!

She has no exam results, no qualifications. I don’t see that as a
problem right now. She might need that time out. My DD, finished school with average GCSE’s and after a time of growing up, now has two degrees and is currently doing an MBA.

You have to handle this well! The most important thing is your relationship with her. Hold your hands up in despair as your post shows you are doing, but stay engaged, offering options and alternatives, things that you see you feel she might be interested in. She may reject everything you say, but your interest and engagement will become contagious. She will grow up and get it! I did this with my DD and now I am her ears for every one of her entrepreneurial ventures.

Stay so close to her!

Yes kids do talk about this, particularly if their own families (even if they dont live with them or get on with them) also just live on benefits. So she'll see this as true.

I wouldnt get too worked up about it, I would focus on what she feels about herself and get some guidance from post adoption about the issues Ive mentioned about birth family, whats her understanding or curiosity or anger or grief about it.

Does she actually know the addresses of the "friends" in London?
If not I would find a way to cut off the contact. Does she actually know who she is really talking too online? Have you verified these "friends" are who they say they are?