To allow my DD to follow her ridiculous "life plan"

[14HoursToSaveTheEarth]

This is not really an AIBU. I'm asking for advice/views. Long post so sorry.

My DD (16) is a number of things including confident and articulate. This may sound harsh but she is also in many ways immature and gullible, and very, very lazy. She left secondary school without a single GCSE of any grade and to be honest I think it is safe to say that this will continue and she will leave all education without any qualifications. Importantly, she does not care. She lives a privileged life in a seven bedroom house where she wants for nothing, but her attitude is that work is for fools and she plans to live off the government until she gets married and they look after her. You have no idea how long we have spent trying to dispel this fantasy and educate her as to how life will be in the real world if she doesn't change her attitude but she thinks we made our life choices (like going to university, gaining multiple degrees and working long hours at good jobs to provide her with this life) and she will make hers.

So she now has a "friend" who she met online via other friends who has had a hard time in life. She is also 16 but she cannot live at home due to her family circumstances, so he has a flat paid for by the local authority (according to DD). This friend has it sounds serious mental health issues, is a self-harmer and has attempted suicide several times, and recently had a miscarriage. I do not think it was her first pregnancy. The friend lives in East London. We live in the countryside several hours from London.

DD and her friend have now hatched a master plan whereby when they turn 18 DD will move in with her friend in London and they will both live off of benefits and never have to work, or at most they will get a job at MacDonalds.They think that this is them beating the system and they laugh at people planning to go to university and get jobs.

I could write this off as a teenage fantasy, which it probably is, but I constantly see threads on MN about young women who are living the life she describes and it makes me despair that this plan may become a reality. I don't even know what to do if we cannot talk her out of it. Do we drive her to London and try to be "supportive" (though I would not give her money other than in an emergency) in order to still be part of her life when it all goes wrong, or do we say "fine, make your choices but stand on your own two feet then" and see her sink possibly out of our lives forever?

DD also has two younger siblings who idolise her and I really worry about the message this sends to them, if she messages them about her amazing life in London sticking a finger up at everything we are trying to get them to work towards.

For full disclosure, as I don't want to be accused of drip-feeding, my DD was adopted at age three.

I know this will probably all come to nothing but it horrifies me when I hear her planning for a future that I know will be so bleak when for so many years we had such high hopes for her future. She has tried vaping and tried alcohol at a party but she hated both, so does not drink or smoke, has never tried drugs and is a virgin. However, she is incredibly stubborn and I have seen her turn viciously on people, including teachers, who do not allow her to have her own way (though thankfully this is not often), and so I can see her following through on this ridiculous plan out of sheer willfulness.

Before anyone asks, DH and I are fully on the same page on this issue. We are both equally horrified at her so-called plans but at a loss as to how to curtail them when she listens to everything we say and then simply says that she has her own mind and when she is 18 we cannot stop her. And she is right.

Beside this ridiculous plan and a general laziness with respect to anything concerning study, she is actually a pretty good kid most days (the moments of stubbornness I mentioned above are momentous but rare), so I have no reason to do anything to punish her. She is allowed to have friends and crazy ideas.

So please MN, your views:

Am I being UNREASONABLE and should let her spread her wings and move in with an unstable friend and live a life that horrifies me, putting her safety at risk in the hope that she sees sense and comes home, or

am I being REASONABLE and should do everything to prevent her from moving in with her friend when she is 18, even if that drives a wedge between us, hoping that she eventually understands this is for her benefit?

or should we do something else entirely?

Either that or im having really strong de ja Vue thats really freaked me out it was pretty much exactly the same

Thank you. We were warned all those years ago that many adopted children will seek out the "undesirable" element at school as a friendship group so I think that does play into it. Unfortunately, once the adoption papers were signed both our adoption agency and the local council largely washed their hands of us.

And in fairness she has not been a trouble causer other than being famously stubborn throughout school.

Is this a joke or?
I’ve never heard of a teenager wanting to live like that. Make her watch benefits Britain on Netflix (or prime?) see what she genuinely makes of that. Teenagers speak a hell of a lot of shit though, hopefully she’s just in some weird phase. 😬

Absolutely this.

Plus this: She has tried vaping and tried alcohol at a party but she hated both, so does not drink or smoke, has never tried drugs and is a virgin is...well...come on.

You have to try and protect her from herself I think. When I was 16 I distinctly remember deciding I was never going to be part of convent society and would live in a commune, camping in the wild and living off the land. I literally can't think of anything worse now 😂

We don't make her get a job because in theory she is studying (in theory), so we pay for her phone and occasional clothes, and food/bills of course, but I expect to feed her while she's at school. And then about a tenner a week pocket money. She doesn't have many close friends in real life and when she does go out she doesn't spend much, so she actually doesn't cost us a lot.

^^ This to be fair. There's a whole 'nature vs nurture' point to be made here too.

I feel for you though because you've provided her with everything and this effectively is how she's repaying you. Maybe it's been too easy for her?

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/LBP-2019-0052/LBP-2019-0052.pdf

I know many adoptees and many are struggling a lot more than yours. Give yourself a pat on the back!

If she's really not trying at college, then I'd have a serious talk with her about giving it up and either getting a job or work experience in something she enjoys.

She doesn't sound as though she has a purpose in life and maybe can't see beyond the next step of leaving school.

Before letting her go off to East London I'd try to show her what other possibilities there are in life.

I was just thinking this. The adoption at 3 is a massive part of this story.

you really need to take advice from people who’ve been in this situation.

I had a friend who’d been adopted as a baby. He went crazy for a while as a teenager. He had had no other traumatic experiences. His birth mother was 15 and he was given up for adoption immediately.

your DD had a very difficult start, which would make things even trickier. She must’ve experienced a very traumatic early life before coming to you.

have you ever spoken to her about this? Or gone to family therapy?

I know, but seriously that is the case. I think part of the issue is that she is really immature and naive and hence easily led.

The best thing would be for her to get a part time job in McDonald’s for a few months and to take her down a job centre on Tottenham for a few hours every week, give her a realistic idea of what future life she is choosing.

She’s not putting effort in at college though is she.
stop giving her money would be my advice.

I must ask - how did she get into college with no GCSE's whatsover?

Yes OP this.

So who's paying for her phone contract? Makeup etc?

Obviously you and DH as she doesn't have a job. McDonald's will take 16 year olds as long as they have finished their GCSEs.

So great opportunity for her to see what McDonalds is like, if they will take her!!!

In meantime you make her "work" for her phone contract and pocket money. Washing the car, hoovering every day, cooking once a week.

Most of us don't want to work but we need to eat and pay bills!!

How much support have you all had throughout her adoption.

Children who are adopted past young babies often experience difficulties in their teenage years. Have you all had support, therapy etc.

It could be that you all need specialist help. It sounds like you could afford to fund it privately.

Op- you may find you can get fast tracked for family or individual therapy. Honestly you need specialist advice.

I don't think she is allowed to leave college and get a job before 18 unless it's an apprenticeship and they are rare as hen's teeth where we live.

She would quit college in a second for what she sees as an easy job if she could. I don't think it would last long, but........

Has she had any kind of therapy? What was her birth family background and does she know it? It sounds like it’s linked to how she views herself and her own worth. If she doesn’t try then she can’t be rejected or face disappointment as she is self sabotaging to protect herself maybe?

She needs a job, you can study and be at college (and university, dont get me started on that) and work. She should be working on the days she isnt in college and at weekends. She can study on her days in college and in the evenings.

Thats life

Her problem is that she doesnt want for anything, this provides no motivation.

She may well have issues from trauma but has spent the majority of her life being parented well and the best therapy for damaged children is good parenting.

Does she have FASD?

What responsibilities does she have, she needs to take ownership of something to feel proud of her self and develop good self esteem.

Can you contact your LA about any post adoption support? I don’t know what’s available at 16 but it’s worth asking. Or paying privately for some family counseling or counseling for her. I’m not an expert at all but am an adopter and I really do think the answers are often different for adopted children. A previous poster mentioned self esteem - this is a real issue… if she doesn’t try she can’t fail.

What is she actually studying at college?
Is she on a special pathway as you said she had literally no GCSEs?

Let her - she will soon learn. I’d also start the education now. You say she wants for nothing? Is that because you provide everything she needs as parents? Does she not work or attend any kind of education? If not I’d retract all financial support, doesn’t have to be forever just to prove a point. Let her see what she can do to pay bills and get groceries and pay for her phone and internet, any other expenses too! She will soon realise

This. Is she on roll anywhere? Get school / college / LA involved. Was she in care in the UK before adoption? Either way, this.

Presumably there isn’t any chance of you finding her a hobby or interest that she could be steered into getting very engrossed in.