To allow my DD to follow her ridiculous "life plan"

[14HoursToSaveTheEarth]

This is not really an AIBU. I'm asking for advice/views. Long post so sorry.

My DD (16) is a number of things including confident and articulate. This may sound harsh but she is also in many ways immature and gullible, and very, very lazy. She left secondary school without a single GCSE of any grade and to be honest I think it is safe to say that this will continue and she will leave all education without any qualifications. Importantly, she does not care. She lives a privileged life in a seven bedroom house where she wants for nothing, but her attitude is that work is for fools and she plans to live off the government until she gets married and they look after her. You have no idea how long we have spent trying to dispel this fantasy and educate her as to how life will be in the real world if she doesn't change her attitude but she thinks we made our life choices (like going to university, gaining multiple degrees and working long hours at good jobs to provide her with this life) and she will make hers.

So she now has a "friend" who she met online via other friends who has had a hard time in life. She is also 16 but she cannot live at home due to her family circumstances, so he has a flat paid for by the local authority (according to DD). This friend has it sounds serious mental health issues, is a self-harmer and has attempted suicide several times, and recently had a miscarriage. I do not think it was her first pregnancy. The friend lives in East London. We live in the countryside several hours from London.

DD and her friend have now hatched a master plan whereby when they turn 18 DD will move in with her friend in London and they will both live off of benefits and never have to work, or at most they will get a job at MacDonalds.They think that this is them beating the system and they laugh at people planning to go to university and get jobs.

I could write this off as a teenage fantasy, which it probably is, but I constantly see threads on MN about young women who are living the life she describes and it makes me despair that this plan may become a reality. I don't even know what to do if we cannot talk her out of it. Do we drive her to London and try to be "supportive" (though I would not give her money other than in an emergency) in order to still be part of her life when it all goes wrong, or do we say "fine, make your choices but stand on your own two feet then" and see her sink possibly out of our lives forever?

DD also has two younger siblings who idolise her and I really worry about the message this sends to them, if she messages them about her amazing life in London sticking a finger up at everything we are trying to get them to work towards.

For full disclosure, as I don't want to be accused of drip-feeding, my DD was adopted at age three.

I know this will probably all come to nothing but it horrifies me when I hear her planning for a future that I know will be so bleak when for so many years we had such high hopes for her future. She has tried vaping and tried alcohol at a party but she hated both, so does not drink or smoke, has never tried drugs and is a virgin. However, she is incredibly stubborn and I have seen her turn viciously on people, including teachers, who do not allow her to have her own way (though thankfully this is not often), and so I can see her following through on this ridiculous plan out of sheer willfulness.

Before anyone asks, DH and I are fully on the same page on this issue. We are both equally horrified at her so-called plans but at a loss as to how to curtail them when she listens to everything we say and then simply says that she has her own mind and when she is 18 we cannot stop her. And she is right.

Beside this ridiculous plan and a general laziness with respect to anything concerning study, she is actually a pretty good kid most days (the moments of stubbornness I mentioned above are momentous but rare), so I have no reason to do anything to punish her. She is allowed to have friends and crazy ideas.

So please MN, your views:

Am I being UNREASONABLE and should let her spread her wings and move in with an unstable friend and live a life that horrifies me, putting her safety at risk in the hope that she sees sense and comes home, or

am I being REASONABLE and should do everything to prevent her from moving in with her friend when she is 18, even if that drives a wedge between us, hoping that she eventually understands this is for her benefit?

or should we do something else entirely?

So, here's what you do. Tell her you fully accept her decision as you cannot stop her. Tell her you want to help prepare her for this lifestyle so you will allocate her a living allowance equivalent to a weeks worth of universal credit. Out of this comes her weeks's food, her contribution to all bills and any treats, skincare, spends etc. she does her own washing , cooking and cleaning. She spends 35 hrs a week on searching and shows you the proof weekly. Be unfailingly enthusiastic about her 'lifestyle choice' and if she refuses to do the job search you giver her no money but issue her with 'debt' for food/bills etc.

The big problem I foresee is if she is still of this mindset at 18, or even before, she may think that pregnancy works in her favour. That's when her troubles will really begin.

Thanks. I am not charging her rent as she does not work and she does not consume much at home.

I know a huge amount about her biological family. In fact I would go so far as to say I think I know too much, in particular about her extended biological family. However, while I know her birth parents did not do well at school I think they are from a background where poor performance at school would have been expected and I doubt their own parents would have been the type to push for any analysis of the underlying causes.

You are obviously a high achieving family, and I’m not saying it was deliberate but she’s grown up with the spoken/unspoken expectation that she will be the same.
For her, it’s easier not to try than to try and fail and thus disappoint you. She will feel the weight of your disappointment even if you reassure her it’s ok and you won’t be.

A friend of mine is one of five children in a similar family with unspoken pressure to do well. Two have turned out to be high achieving themselves. One is pretty average and two have really poor mental health and have taken a withdrawing from society route.

I think you need professional support at this point.

@catlover123456789 : I guarantee you, one night in the shed with cold beans for tea, she will choose education.

😶😶😶

Don't underestimate the impact of trauma on a child adopted at 3 years.
What may appear as laziness could be overwhelm.

My unspoken fear.

OP, I’m so sorry for your situation.

The thing which stood out for me hugely is that you’re focusing on the specifics of her daft plan, but there is a bigger mental health warning sign here and some of this is a cry for help. She’s adopted, gravitates towards friends with trauma and unstable lives, her despondency. It can be easy to dismiss as laziness or teenage rebellion.

It sounds like you are financially comfortable enough to get her to a good psychologist or perhaps in the first instance you might want to speak to one yourself to try to work out firstly what they think is going on and what is the best way to help her (especially if you think she might be resistant to just going straight into therapy. They can advise you also on how to broach the subject with her too). She sounds like she needs a proper mental health assessment.

My sister has borderline personality disorder and a lot of her truly extraordinary behaviour was dismissed as teenage rebellion. I’m not a mental health professional but this doesn’t sound like normal teen stuff to me either.

In the meantime don’t get bogged down in discussing the specifics of “the plan”. It’s two years away and it might make her more entrenched. Focus on the present and trying to get to the bottom of what might be the real driver for this. The “plan” to me sounds like rejecting life before it can reject her, being afraid to try (like the test) - but it’s being dressed up and presented with bravado to you.

Good luck OP. You sound like a great mum xxx

I'd let her go to be honest. She'll soon discover that living on benefits isn't going to be the high life she imagines when she's struggling to afford food or electricity. Some people need to learn the hard way and it seems like she's one of them.

This.

A few shifts in McDonald's may be all it would take to give this naive princess a wake up call! It may also make her see her lack of qualifications in a new light!

She’s exactly right, you are not her. And however well intentioned I think you’re trying to address her symptoms rather than the root cause of her overall difficulty with life.

Everything you say points towards an undiagnosed neurodivergence which in turn has caused incredible overwhelm and mental health issues.

Rather than worry about something hypothetical in the relatively distant future you need to engage with a clinical psychologist as a matter of urgency as well as closely monitoring who she is interacting with online. I think you’re being a little naive. You said she doesn’t have many friends IRL and can be quite innocent which makes for a potentially dangerous combination when engaging who knows online.

Excuse my genuine ignorance, but if this is true then what is all the fuss about so-called lazy, scrounging benefits claimants, if they are all being forced to work so hard?

She’s still a child at 16. OP has still got time to try and steer her in a different direction.

I wondered something like this too. Does she know about the background of her birth parents? Perhaps she is "identifying" with them as people who for whatever reason could not cope with normal expectation of bringing up their child. Was there vulnerability in her parents' background? I'd just be normal, as she hopefully will grow out of any fantasy she is harbouring about a vulnerable identity. At the same time don't push academic achievement at the same level you have. It may be a goal that is not suitable for her, and she reacts against. Can you be just normally accepting of her as she is, supportive but not putting up with any nonsense about a life on benefits. If she feels better about herself, she will hopefully grow out of this phase.💐

I agree with pp that therapy may be the best thing and it's worth taking your time to look for someone good, who understands the impact of early trauma and adoption, and who can observe your family dynamic.

In the meantime, I think maybe don't react much to the comments about living in London and not working. It's nonsense and you don't need to really entertain it. If she brings it up just laugh it off. Don't take it seriously. You might also tell her that she'll always have a home with you and reassure her that you don't actually want her to move out at 18. But I rather suspect the reality is that these plans will fall apart before they come to anything.

Every thing you are feeling right now is absolutely justified.

But.

If what you've said is correct, and you've truly done every speech and sit-down with your daughter, I think you have to accept that your daughter is going to go through the shit without your best advice.

My son is 14, and your story has sent dread through my bones. I am a man and I am honestly terrified by what you've just said happening to my boy. You have my sympathies and support.
Saying that, you could be in the horrible situation of having to let your daughter make her mistakes and living with the consequences, while you sit by watching it unfold in real time.

As a man, let me give you some harsh logic. You can either spend your energy stressing over this, or you can prepare for the inevitable future where she needs a strong, well prepared mother. Steel yourself for an inevitable return where she's hit rock bottom with drugs or alcohol, or both, or god forbid, she comes home pregnant. Yes, these both sound harsh, but if you prepare yourself for the worst, you can handle anything else that she might throw at you.

Your words are are very specific and everything you've described shows a girl going head long into self destruction.

Just prepare yourself. That is the absolute best that you can give a daughter that, frankly, isn't taking any of your advice at the moment.

Could you “entertain” this plan and look up all the benefits she could receive and how frequently/what the conditions would be then list out a budget of what she had spent this month (including passively using the heat, wifi, council tax etc that you pay in your house on her behalf) and let her see the numbers. They will not add up.
McDonalds may not hire her with no qualifications, not when there are a dozen school leavers with qualifications for every post. But even if you entertain that part of the fantasy, how many hours a week would she need to work?
Even if she has an interest in becoming a “sugar baby”, seriously rich men want women who they can take outside in public (ie who can hold a conversation about topical issues and who are not living in a slum and working in McDonalds!)
expectations need managed and then be there for when it all goes tits up and she wants to go back to school/find meaning for her life.

Op articulate child and bright but can't translate that to paper screams Sen ,special educational needs esp dyslexia .

She needs proper help
Even a short time suffering in school being bright can destroy a child's self esteem etc make them feel hopeless and miss understood.

That's without the added adoption issue so what hope is there for her ??

Why should she think life has anything tonofdee she's been told she's a sub par student ? But she's bright ??

I think the poster is right of course it’s not that easy to just get benefits also I think she would be voluntary homeless if she doesn’t get on with the friend and has to leave ( which will end up happening in a small flat share) as you haven’t chucked her out. She actually has a home with you.

Contact post adoption and ask for an assessment of need, while the ASF is still available.

Rich guys tend to be intelligent and educated.
Not many have any interest in a woman who knows nothing.

This hasn't been my experience - I encouraged my young adult child to sign on, hoping that they would be encouraged/helped to find work, but the Job Centre don't make them do anything much for their UC. In person appointments are pretty irregular, most of the check-ins are about 5 minutes on the phone a fortnight.

@Mandemikc or she could address the learning issue get tutors and help re build her education ?

We think teachers can help with Sen but it's well known they can't diagnose ,they can't recognise many types of send to get others to help .

No one is saying she’s stupid though. You can have not have had an education and still be bright funny and nice to be with. Not that I think she should be aiming for marrying a rich man as a life plan.