To allow my DD to follow her ridiculous "life plan"

[14HoursToSaveTheEarth]

This is not really an AIBU. I'm asking for advice/views. Long post so sorry.

My DD (16) is a number of things including confident and articulate. This may sound harsh but she is also in many ways immature and gullible, and very, very lazy. She left secondary school without a single GCSE of any grade and to be honest I think it is safe to say that this will continue and she will leave all education without any qualifications. Importantly, she does not care. She lives a privileged life in a seven bedroom house where she wants for nothing, but her attitude is that work is for fools and she plans to live off the government until she gets married and they look after her. You have no idea how long we have spent trying to dispel this fantasy and educate her as to how life will be in the real world if she doesn't change her attitude but she thinks we made our life choices (like going to university, gaining multiple degrees and working long hours at good jobs to provide her with this life) and she will make hers.

So she now has a "friend" who she met online via other friends who has had a hard time in life. She is also 16 but she cannot live at home due to her family circumstances, so he has a flat paid for by the local authority (according to DD). This friend has it sounds serious mental health issues, is a self-harmer and has attempted suicide several times, and recently had a miscarriage. I do not think it was her first pregnancy. The friend lives in East London. We live in the countryside several hours from London.

DD and her friend have now hatched a master plan whereby when they turn 18 DD will move in with her friend in London and they will both live off of benefits and never have to work, or at most they will get a job at MacDonalds.They think that this is them beating the system and they laugh at people planning to go to university and get jobs.

I could write this off as a teenage fantasy, which it probably is, but I constantly see threads on MN about young women who are living the life she describes and it makes me despair that this plan may become a reality. I don't even know what to do if we cannot talk her out of it. Do we drive her to London and try to be "supportive" (though I would not give her money other than in an emergency) in order to still be part of her life when it all goes wrong, or do we say "fine, make your choices but stand on your own two feet then" and see her sink possibly out of our lives forever?

DD also has two younger siblings who idolise her and I really worry about the message this sends to them, if she messages them about her amazing life in London sticking a finger up at everything we are trying to get them to work towards.

For full disclosure, as I don't want to be accused of drip-feeding, my DD was adopted at age three.

I know this will probably all come to nothing but it horrifies me when I hear her planning for a future that I know will be so bleak when for so many years we had such high hopes for her future. She has tried vaping and tried alcohol at a party but she hated both, so does not drink or smoke, has never tried drugs and is a virgin. However, she is incredibly stubborn and I have seen her turn viciously on people, including teachers, who do not allow her to have her own way (though thankfully this is not often), and so I can see her following through on this ridiculous plan out of sheer willfulness.

Before anyone asks, DH and I are fully on the same page on this issue. We are both equally horrified at her so-called plans but at a loss as to how to curtail them when she listens to everything we say and then simply says that she has her own mind and when she is 18 we cannot stop her. And she is right.

Beside this ridiculous plan and a general laziness with respect to anything concerning study, she is actually a pretty good kid most days (the moments of stubbornness I mentioned above are momentous but rare), so I have no reason to do anything to punish her. She is allowed to have friends and crazy ideas.

So please MN, your views:

Am I being UNREASONABLE and should let her spread her wings and move in with an unstable friend and live a life that horrifies me, putting her safety at risk in the hope that she sees sense and comes home, or

am I being REASONABLE and should do everything to prevent her from moving in with her friend when she is 18, even if that drives a wedge between us, hoping that she eventually understands this is for her benefit?

or should we do something else entirely?

You say she wants for nothing. Do you support her financially? If so cut off the cash and see how she manages with no money coming in.

If no longer in education or having a job, withdraw all financial support apart from keeping a roof over her head in your home, food & basic clothing until she turns 18. Once 18 , you expect her to contribute to covering food/heating unless she gies ahead with her hairyfairy life plan.

Are you charging her rent? You should be if she is not at school or college.
Lots can change between 16 and 18 and your DD may also change. Do you know anything about her background and her biological parents? It's fashionable to say nurture is everything, but nature is strong, too, and we inherit traits, interests etc from our ancestors even when we do not know who they were or what they did.
If all else fails then let her fail. It's dreadful, and you will need to provide the safety net that she will need and be there to pick up the pieces. It's all we can do, sometimes, as parents.

Financially give her the bare minimum and let her find out for herself how tough oife is, she has been too pampered

So she is 16, sitting at home with no job and no qualifications? It's simple, you charge her rent. You charge a market-comparable rent plus a contribution to bills and you ask her to pay for her own food, just as if she was living in a house-share. If she does not pay then you can direct her to a sleeping bag in the shed and provide basic food such as tinned beans and some bottled tap water. She will hate it but its an early lesson as to why education and work and, crucially, independence are so important. If she agrees to go back to school, and actually get her qualifications, then she doesn't have to pay rent, but she will need a part time job for pocket money. If she goes to work and starts paying rent, keep some back to help her get a deposit for her own place. I guarantee you, one night in the shed with cold beans for tea, she will choose education.

The worry is that life would be grim between McDonalds and having no money. Drugs would be tempting to numb the pain. Or Only Fans. Meeting a rich guy is the best option, sadly…

For the next two years show her what it will be like. Give her the equivalent monetary value (or a weekly credit) for the benefits she would recieve. Then take her food shopping with her allowance _ she sticks to her own food/toiletries in the house. Charge her for her gas/electricity/water etc etc. Then see long she thinks she can last! Propose it as a challenge for a decent amount of time and show her all your calculations so she knows your not favouring your own view and the figures are realistic.
.

It’s everything to do with it.

If she does do it, she won't be texting to say she's living an amazing life because she won't be! She won't be allowed to just sit have benefits because she feels bone idle, they'll put her on jobseekers and she will be commanded to carry out and be evidence 35 hours a week job hunting, she will be asked usually to visit the job centre weekly with her evidence, she will be made to search for jobs up to a 90 mins commute away, she'll be put on courses like SIA to be security or door people, C.V writing. She will be assigned a job coach. They will not tolerate her laziness! She will be forced into work even if it's a job she hates! And if she gets a full time income, she can't live with her mate because it will impact her mates benefits and maybe even her right to that council house. Drill this into her and make it clear it would be a crap life of not having anything, not seeing anything or experiencing anything, just a life of living in some shitty London council estate and bouncing from shit job to shit job because they will not let her just sit on benefits. I know the requirements because I was made redundant last year and went to the jobcentre to see what help I could get, they aren't keen to give you benefits and want you working asap.

Steel yourself, you're going to be a granny very soon. Once she realises that the benefits game swings more in her favour once she's got a baby.
In all seriousness I hope she changes tack as a life on benefits is no life.

That's an excellent idea! Get her to do 35 hours a week of job hunting as well because that job centre will demand she does that and evidences it.

Op I suggest reading the primal wound . Those 3 years before you adopted her will have massively shaped her life and life ahead of her ! More so than you would think . X

At least you wanted to do something worthwhile with the money - I love my travelling too and it's so rewarding. But I don't know why this stupid girl thinks it would be a great life to sit rotting on a London council estate! The jobcentre would force her into work rapidly, they don't piss about these days.

I'd stop driving her to London and tell her to get a job to pay for her travel like everyone else does. Or maybe she thinks the state should pay for that too?

@Grammarnut @catlover123456789 she's at college.

I agree with this.

We both work full time. I imagine as other people have said she is used to having her bills paid without needing to go to work and thinks that living on benefits will be just like that. As I said before, except for her phone she does not really have any extravagent outgoings. She doesn't spend very much and gets a tenner pocket money a week that she saves, either to save up for a pair of trainers or jeans, or to buy gifts. For years she has bought everyone in the family as well as her friends birthday and Christmas presents out of her own money.

I am emphasising this just because a lot of posters are saying "cut off her cash" but she really doesn't get that much. I can't stop feeding her. The phone is the only luxury item she has and that is an old iPhone she has had for years. Taking that would feel like punishing her when she isn't doing anything wrong, apart from having unrealistic ideas and not working very hard at her studies. On her studies I would prefer to reward trying hard rather than punish lack of effort, but perhaps I am being too lax on that.

She knows she is adopted, if that is what you mean. She has never shown any interest in learning about her birth family.

I’m sorry if I have missed this OP, but I find your answers vague. Someone else asked - what money do you give your daughter? Who pays for her phone, for clothes, for going out money, for tech, for trips, for hobbies etc? The answer has to be you do as she doesn’t work and has met an ‘online friend’. Stop subsidizing this so she understands the value of work, even if it only money to do what she wants.

She may be in college but she isn’t doing much there - there are plenty of 16 year olds with Saturday jobs. Make her get one to fund herself.

She wants to be an adult and make her own choices (for good or bad) but she doesn’t know, or want to understand that adulting requires more than getting pocket money from a parent.

Her affluent lifestyle in a 7 bed house ends when she is 18 - because it is actually your life you worked for, and your lifestyle. If she wants total independence then you must make her understand it’s on her, not you. Do it now when she is 16 because 18 is too late.

A difficult age as many 16 year olds go through a rebellious “not wanting to end up like my parents “ phase. I didn’t have any clue how to help my sons through their teenage years tbh due to autism/possible adhd/ hormones/ covid lockdown during their GCSE and A level years. Despite their high intelligence neither came away with any A levels and my older son who got an A* in GCSE maths at age 10 only has 5 GCSEs (the basic English,maths and science) However, they are coming through the other side now in their early 20s. I don’t know about the adoption side of things but all I can say is that my approach was to allow them to make their own choices and discuss how to deal the consequences of those choices when required. I think you are right to say that you can’t control your daughter so instead you can only demonstrate that you are always there for her to turn to whatever happens?

@14HoursToSaveTheEarth - just because you’ve seen them and waved or said hi doesn’t mean they are who they say they are. They could be girls being forced behind the scenes to ‘befriend’ young girls. I would never just take seeing someone on video as evidence they are legit.

I think you need to really take action now. Get her some help as the poster before said from professionals. It could be that she is feeling lost and also feels her life will go no where so why not just ‘bum around’.

I'm really sorry that you have having this complicated situation. You sound like a wonderful caring Mum.

I wondered if you would consider sitting down with your DD with a GCSE maths past paper or a GCSE English language past paper and seeing what happens when she tries to sit them?

I've had to remove my DS from English language GCSE entirely because there is a lot of stuff about death and panic and suffering in it and it was causing him crippling anxiety.

It's possible that your DD just can't bear to look at the text and has shut down.

The foundation maths paper is really not that hard, and it would be worth your sitting with her to see what is going on when she tries to sit it.

You can get them by googling "pearson gcse maths" and "pearson GCSE english language" and then downloading the past papers from the links.

The foundation maths past papers have an "F" in the link.

My DS also has PTSD from his infant years. I know because he had two surgeries before he was three and it has left terrible problems for him. If you don't know what happened to your DD in her first three years, then it's very possible that something is going on there that she doesn't remember.

The key I think is to keep listening and talking to her, and lovingly reading the riot act if necessary. She needs to know that she's walking into trouble and that you have her back (even if it means shouting at her front occassionally).

Good luck there.

I’d be really worried too. But there’s a long way between the dream and the reality. In a much lesser version of your story, my oldest child didn’t try particularly hard at school and at 18 announced he was having no more to do with education. I said fine get a job then. After 6 months on minimum wage in retail he decided he would go to uni after all. He failed his first year of uni as he just dossed around. Then he woke up to life, got on with it, graduated with a first and now has a great job and is saving for a house with his gf. Sometimes they have to experience a bit of how crap life can be in order to find their motivation.

It was a cross post OP - thanks for the update. But I think you give her quite a bit considering her beliefs. How does she get to college - travel money given, lifts or by bike?
She is 16 - how does she afford toiletries she likes? I don’t imagine it’s a bar of coal tar only? Does she visit the friend in London OP - how does she get there? What chores do any of your kids do for pocket money?
I am trying to be helpful not critical.

As another poster said...you and your husband sound intelligent and well educated. She's not your biological daughter...could it be she is not naturally intelligent, and frightened of failing and disappointing you? Have you been expecting great things of her (like not working in a supermarket) and she's scared of letting you down? You do sound like very supportive parents though so just a thought.

She doesn't have any money coming in except ten pounds a week pocket money, and that is beneficial in that it is teaching her to budget (she does plan and save her pocket money for x weeks to buy a pair of trainers she wants, and then puts that off for a week so she can buy a friend a birthday present).

I say she wants for nothing and that is true, but besides access to Netflix her wants are pretty small. She doesn't hang out with friends, doesn't have any expensive hobbies (she sometimes plays hockey and for over a year now I have offered to buy her a new stick but she says the old one is fine), she buys most of her own clothes and makeup, which I do supplement with basic stuff but she knows that if she wants anything expensive she pays for it herself out of her pocket money or birthday/Christmas money from relatives. If I cut off her pretty modest pocket money I would be seen as mean by not just her but I think she would manage quite well as most weeks it isn't touched.