To allow my DD to follow her ridiculous "life plan"

[14HoursToSaveTheEarth]

This is not really an AIBU. I'm asking for advice/views. Long post so sorry.

My DD (16) is a number of things including confident and articulate. This may sound harsh but she is also in many ways immature and gullible, and very, very lazy. She left secondary school without a single GCSE of any grade and to be honest I think it is safe to say that this will continue and she will leave all education without any qualifications. Importantly, she does not care. She lives a privileged life in a seven bedroom house where she wants for nothing, but her attitude is that work is for fools and she plans to live off the government until she gets married and they look after her. You have no idea how long we have spent trying to dispel this fantasy and educate her as to how life will be in the real world if she doesn't change her attitude but she thinks we made our life choices (like going to university, gaining multiple degrees and working long hours at good jobs to provide her with this life) and she will make hers.

So she now has a "friend" who she met online via other friends who has had a hard time in life. She is also 16 but she cannot live at home due to her family circumstances, so he has a flat paid for by the local authority (according to DD). This friend has it sounds serious mental health issues, is a self-harmer and has attempted suicide several times, and recently had a miscarriage. I do not think it was her first pregnancy. The friend lives in East London. We live in the countryside several hours from London.

DD and her friend have now hatched a master plan whereby when they turn 18 DD will move in with her friend in London and they will both live off of benefits and never have to work, or at most they will get a job at MacDonalds.They think that this is them beating the system and they laugh at people planning to go to university and get jobs.

I could write this off as a teenage fantasy, which it probably is, but I constantly see threads on MN about young women who are living the life she describes and it makes me despair that this plan may become a reality. I don't even know what to do if we cannot talk her out of it. Do we drive her to London and try to be "supportive" (though I would not give her money other than in an emergency) in order to still be part of her life when it all goes wrong, or do we say "fine, make your choices but stand on your own two feet then" and see her sink possibly out of our lives forever?

DD also has two younger siblings who idolise her and I really worry about the message this sends to them, if she messages them about her amazing life in London sticking a finger up at everything we are trying to get them to work towards.

For full disclosure, as I don't want to be accused of drip-feeding, my DD was adopted at age three.

I know this will probably all come to nothing but it horrifies me when I hear her planning for a future that I know will be so bleak when for so many years we had such high hopes for her future. She has tried vaping and tried alcohol at a party but she hated both, so does not drink or smoke, has never tried drugs and is a virgin. However, she is incredibly stubborn and I have seen her turn viciously on people, including teachers, who do not allow her to have her own way (though thankfully this is not often), and so I can see her following through on this ridiculous plan out of sheer willfulness.

Before anyone asks, DH and I are fully on the same page on this issue. We are both equally horrified at her so-called plans but at a loss as to how to curtail them when she listens to everything we say and then simply says that she has her own mind and when she is 18 we cannot stop her. And she is right.

Beside this ridiculous plan and a general laziness with respect to anything concerning study, she is actually a pretty good kid most days (the moments of stubbornness I mentioned above are momentous but rare), so I have no reason to do anything to punish her. She is allowed to have friends and crazy ideas.

So please MN, your views:

Am I being UNREASONABLE and should let her spread her wings and move in with an unstable friend and live a life that horrifies me, putting her safety at risk in the hope that she sees sense and comes home, or

am I being REASONABLE and should do everything to prevent her from moving in with her friend when she is 18, even if that drives a wedge between us, hoping that she eventually understands this is for her benefit?

or should we do something else entirely?

The episode of handing in a blank piece of paper was not in the final days of school. That was probably in Year 10 and it never happened again, but it stood out as a particular example as I found it so confusing. To sit for two hours while everyone else worked and write nothing is not an easy option. To me it felt like defiance, but perhaps overwhelmed is more accurate as people have said. Most of her mock exams were getting grades 3-5, with teachers saying she might get a couple of 6s on a good day, which is why the results were such a shock and since then she has just turned off. Totally refused to even consider resitting anything other than English and Maths which are required. She is actually considers that she needs to even be in college grossly unfair.

Her school work was middling to poor if left to her as she would do the minimum she could, but projects where she needed our help (e.g. to use the printer at home) she would do well as we would keep encouraging her to do more - not doing it for her but asking her to expand something or to look for more examples. So she could do it, but would choose to do the least possible if given the option.

She's a spring baby so was 16 and 2-3 months when she sat her GCSEs. She turns 17 in a couple of months.

This is totally accurate. While saying she would live on benefits and sleep on the sofa, in another conversation she will say she could never live in a house with only one bathroom because sharing is ick.😂

I tried to explain that if she's on benefits she'll be lucky if its not a shared bathroom with no hot water. She just said she would refuse to live in that flat, as if you get a list to choose from.

How can you assume that a couple of barristers nurtured her appropriately to ensure her emotional development?

That’s all that matters at the end of the day - if the foundational emotional growth / resilience isn’t developed it’s very hard going to make a successful balanced life.

Do you really work 12 hours a day and at weekends. Do you need a 7 bed house. Spending more time with her and her siblings may help. Girls are good at masking autistic spectrum disorder and as an adoptee she may have a trauma based issue which can have similar signs to ASD.

@14HoursToSaveTheEarth you need to find out exactly what she is studying at college and what support she has.
No offence but she's been there a term and you don't know. Did you go to the signing up session with her?
Those who are retaking English and Maths usually are required to be doing another subject alongside. You must know what she is studying surely?
What happened after the incident with the blank exam paper? What support was she given then?

Honestly don’t get distracted and pulled into this type of detail - it’s futile and effectively rearranging the deckchairs on the titanic.

Get some expert professional help to develop a longer term, bigger picture, strategic plan informed by her needs around any trauma / adoption / ND / SEN for you all as a family to engage with and then put one foot in front of the other with support and direction for the next few years. Her two friends will not be a good influence on her and are likely very vulnerable themselves to other people and issues. I wonder if they see her as niave and wealthy that they can influence and exploit?

All of this. If the OP is concerned about her daughter getting any qualifications, I find it odd she doesn't even know what she is studying. Does she not have any Maths/English tutors?

They are full siblings. Two adopted together. The youngest came along later and was placed with us.

Yes you’re right you’ve already said that and I think you are right to do that.

I am not sidestepping those suggestions at all, and I have specifically thanked people for those comments and said I am taking note of them. I just think that is a conversation that we need to explore with our post-adoption social worker and possibly GP.

Apologies if anyone who took the time to respond thought I was not taking their excellent advice seriously.

Her reading and writing are fine, though she stopped reading for pleasure about two years ago, which I never thought of before but that probably coincided with when she started getting more access to her phone. Her spelling is not great, but her handwriting is beautiful.

I would have taken that for defiance. A way of showing off, impressing certain types of friends. There have always been kids like that at school I think.
It’s actually a real shame that there are no jobs apparently available for people without qualifications or no apprenticeships apparently because some people just hate school . It used to be possible to just get a job anyway and people had succesful lives ( somone in my family started at 14 in a manuel job hardly being able to read or write because of undiagnosed dyslexia and ended up very well off ) I digress.

Can you get her a tutor ( a ‘coach’ might go down better) take her out of college and home school her? While dhe needs friends it doesn’t sound like the best environment either. It would cost a fortune but maybe try and find someone who will help her improve her self confidence by teaching her stuff in a way she can cope with? Show her she can do it even if it’s just mastering percentages or telling the time.And/ Or at least nuture her interests ( does she like cooking for example ? Animals ?) She feels it’s unfair to have to go to college so the deal could be ok let’s do this instead as long as you stick to it ( and take a few exams🤞)

I do know what she is studying. She is resitting her English and Maths and the additional courses are designed to get her ready for work, but there is no other academic or vocation-specific content because at the colleges near us those courses all required at least two grade 2s at GCSE (or equivalent). I pushed hard for her to have vocational training be it in childcare or a trade but the college was clear she did not have the qualifications necessary.

The only reason it may have looked like I was unsure is because a PP challenged that she would be resitting GCSEs when Functional Levels may be more appropriate. I said I thought it was GCSEs but I would need to check in case that was just my assumption from them using the term "resit". DH took her to the college to get her signed up so he probably does know.

I don’t think you sound very supportive maybe her decisions are linked to your attitude

I am an adoptee and an adopter. I suspect this lies at the bottom of it and she needs help.

FWIW I'd be over joyed if my children worked in Tescos or McDonald's.

I think previous posters have made good points about survivor guilt, immaturity, level of ability.
Also re the friend, where I live, not many 16 year olds get given council flats. They are more likely to be in supported accomodation or a hostel type place.

Is she neurodivergent. The catch excuse for everything. What if she is the world doesn’t owe her or anyone else a living. She will be in for a very rude awakening in the foreseeable future.

I know you've said that her school predicted low grades for her and that she was a low achiever but as parents, you seem unable to assess her intelligence. How was she in primary school? You've described her as very articulate but no mention of your impression of her intelligence. From what you've said it does sound as if she may have cognitive challenges re her reaction when you asked her the time (as well as being immature.) I would get her assessed to see if there's something going on which it would help you to know so you know what next steps to take, and which might also identify where her strengths might lie. Can you find out anything more about her bio family, whether there are any known conditions they have which she may have inherited.

You have a very limited window of time in which to do this.

Have a day off.

Yep pisses me off that.

I hope she finds something more positive to focus on soon OP. It can be a difficult age no matter what your background, but being adopted will impact someone for life. Some are fortunately still able to function quite well but it sounds like your daughter is struggling. If she is attending the college then hopefully she will find some peers who make good role models.

DS2 had an Uber wealthy class at school. Three pupils out of 12 paying school fees out of trust funds. All lovely people who have worked to some degree themselves but all second+ generation inherited wealth. All have house keepers, cleaners, nannies etc.

Family one.. parents work very hard and are very lovely. Not super academic themselves. 3 kids. One really struggles with school, one tries hard and one lazy as hell

Family two . super wealthy, mega inherited wealth. Average academics. 3 kids. The kids do very little.. academically below average, struggle to find a school that will take the eldest

Family three. wealthy. parents divorced. Dad lives overseas and sees the two kids twice a year. Mum had a nanny herself so can't really parent. One kid quite bright but both lazy as hell

Another family not Uber wealthy but parents work like termites to pay the school fees. Both boys lazy, no hobbies, one now dealing cocaine The other one plays compute games day and night.

We removed DS2 from the school as I felt he wasn't getting any good role models (other than friends parents!)

It's not a new idea but beware of over indulging your kids

A compromise - could you talk to her about college, and the fact she’s not enjoying it and together work out an alternative? Could be stopping certain subjects, switching courses, or leaving and getting a job? Then look into what (if any) jobs or training she could access? Cost it all up together?

I mentioned this to DH this morning actually. My understanding is that she has to be in college or an apprenticeship until she turns 18 (and an apprenticeship would be very hard to find as I have been looking for those), but others on here have said that this is not applied strictly. I think she would prefer to work and earn her own money.

I think I would start with a position of taking it on trust that she's struggling ) overwhelmed and have a good chat to her about having faith in her, wanting the best for her and what support does she needs.

Then I would put in place a tutor and anything else constructive that comes out of the conversation.

I would be vigilant with the tutoring sessions and if she's not putting work in then I would be cruel to be kind. Her "job" as a child of the family is to try at school. If she doesn't try I would stop the allowance and replace her phone with a dumb phone until she puts in the minimum effort.

If she does try I would big her up, treats, etc to make her feel special and good about herself even before her academic achievement improves to try and motivate her to keep trying.