To allow my DD to follow her ridiculous "life plan"

[14HoursToSaveTheEarth]

This is not really an AIBU. I'm asking for advice/views. Long post so sorry.

My DD (16) is a number of things including confident and articulate. This may sound harsh but she is also in many ways immature and gullible, and very, very lazy. She left secondary school without a single GCSE of any grade and to be honest I think it is safe to say that this will continue and she will leave all education without any qualifications. Importantly, she does not care. She lives a privileged life in a seven bedroom house where she wants for nothing, but her attitude is that work is for fools and she plans to live off the government until she gets married and they look after her. You have no idea how long we have spent trying to dispel this fantasy and educate her as to how life will be in the real world if she doesn't change her attitude but she thinks we made our life choices (like going to university, gaining multiple degrees and working long hours at good jobs to provide her with this life) and she will make hers.

So she now has a "friend" who she met online via other friends who has had a hard time in life. She is also 16 but she cannot live at home due to her family circumstances, so he has a flat paid for by the local authority (according to DD). This friend has it sounds serious mental health issues, is a self-harmer and has attempted suicide several times, and recently had a miscarriage. I do not think it was her first pregnancy. The friend lives in East London. We live in the countryside several hours from London.

DD and her friend have now hatched a master plan whereby when they turn 18 DD will move in with her friend in London and they will both live off of benefits and never have to work, or at most they will get a job at MacDonalds.They think that this is them beating the system and they laugh at people planning to go to university and get jobs.

I could write this off as a teenage fantasy, which it probably is, but I constantly see threads on MN about young women who are living the life she describes and it makes me despair that this plan may become a reality. I don't even know what to do if we cannot talk her out of it. Do we drive her to London and try to be "supportive" (though I would not give her money other than in an emergency) in order to still be part of her life when it all goes wrong, or do we say "fine, make your choices but stand on your own two feet then" and see her sink possibly out of our lives forever?

DD also has two younger siblings who idolise her and I really worry about the message this sends to them, if she messages them about her amazing life in London sticking a finger up at everything we are trying to get them to work towards.

For full disclosure, as I don't want to be accused of drip-feeding, my DD was adopted at age three.

I know this will probably all come to nothing but it horrifies me when I hear her planning for a future that I know will be so bleak when for so many years we had such high hopes for her future. She has tried vaping and tried alcohol at a party but she hated both, so does not drink or smoke, has never tried drugs and is a virgin. However, she is incredibly stubborn and I have seen her turn viciously on people, including teachers, who do not allow her to have her own way (though thankfully this is not often), and so I can see her following through on this ridiculous plan out of sheer willfulness.

Before anyone asks, DH and I are fully on the same page on this issue. We are both equally horrified at her so-called plans but at a loss as to how to curtail them when she listens to everything we say and then simply says that she has her own mind and when she is 18 we cannot stop her. And she is right.

Beside this ridiculous plan and a general laziness with respect to anything concerning study, she is actually a pretty good kid most days (the moments of stubbornness I mentioned above are momentous but rare), so I have no reason to do anything to punish her. She is allowed to have friends and crazy ideas.

So please MN, your views:

Am I being UNREASONABLE and should let her spread her wings and move in with an unstable friend and live a life that horrifies me, putting her safety at risk in the hope that she sees sense and comes home, or

am I being REASONABLE and should do everything to prevent her from moving in with her friend when she is 18, even if that drives a wedge between us, hoping that she eventually understands this is for her benefit?

or should we do something else entirely?

why not?

I was like your DD at her age and spent ages either on benefits or doing crappy jobs. I ended up going to uni at 29 and became a solicitor. I don't think I would have listened to my parents when I was a teenager as it was something I had to work out for myself, plus I was also very stubborn and thought I knew better. I think it just took me longer to mature and work out what kind of life I wanted and what job I wanted to do. Of course it would've been better for me financially if I'd done all that 10 years earlier, it it didn't work out too badly in the end

She doesn’t live a life of emotional privilege. Not being adopted until 3 years old has likely left her with huge emotional developmental delays due to any compounding traumas experienced from a potentially chaotic attachment figure and environment.

This is out of OPs pay grade. Significant and specific professional psychological expert intervention is required now to support this very vulnerable young person. Tough love doesn’t apply in this situation - it would be inadvertently counterproductive and potentially catastrophic.

This young person is at significant risk of all of the issues that the MH nurse outlined above. But it’s not inevitable. There is a seemingly good relationship base the daughter and the OP which is an important foundation and protective factor.

OP doesnt need to reinvent the wheel here and likely fail in the process - because it’s a very different type of wheel - normal rules don’t apply. Seeking education around adoption trauma / ND / SEN from the adoption boards and other informed sources is crucial as is to keep engaging and connecting this young person in RL physical activities that they enjoy to give her respite and distraction from the chaos and distress that’s in her head and online. Maybe volunteering at animal shelter / theatre / sports coach - anything where she will grow her self esteem by feeling she has physically accomplished something at the end of her shift.

I think this needs exploring as this poster as said 💯 she may have dyslexia, dyspraxia, or dyscalculia, or have ADD or possibly be ND? She may need extra support and it's manifesting in other ways?

Also has your daughter ever had a tutor to support her in her studies? Maybe she needs a bit of guidance, and it's coming across as laziness, when actually she may need extra support with resiting her exams? 🤔

Are there any volunteering groups near where you live? For instance a park group who help to tend the plants etc, 🪴
or maybe she could help out with a sports club, 🏒
or helping out with girl guides, Brownies or something that interests her? 🤎
Random I know, but bear with me, as she may enjoy it and make new friends there, so that these 2 other friends she currently has are not the only pals she bothers with? So as to widen her social circle IYSWIM? 🤔

Does she complete chores at home to earn her pocket money, so that she has some responsibility? 💰

I honest believe what a previous poster said about intense therapy would help in regards to her being adopted etc, as she could benefit a great deal from that. 💕

@14HoursToSaveTheEarth

I agree with this.
OP, you sound like a wonderful parent who is navigating an unbelievably difficult path. I have a 16yo who doesn’t really see the benefit of school. He’d leave at the end of yr11 if he could. But these thoughts are just his optimistic teenage brain that is completely out of touch of the realities of the world. For him, thankfully, he does accept that this isn’t the best plan and that he has to go to college. He doesn’t have any SEND or trauma that feed onto his psychological or cognitive abilities to reason and understand the bigger picture. Your daughter absolutely does.
Please seek out support specifically for parents of adoptive children (I know that statutory support is scarce or non existent) as I’m sure many will be facing similar challenges.

I would definitely recommend an assessment, she’ll come around as she gets over. I recall wanting to move out in not ideal circumstances. Sometimes it takes longer for some teenagers to mature. School may not be for her now, she can return to education, she living in fantasy land. It is difficult to keep the balance.
I returned to education at 20. Best of luck.

She is attending school, this is clearly stated in OP

I mean this kindly but why are you accepting this B/S? You know that she isn't studying or trying in school, yet you are paying her to be lazy. |You know it doesn't make sense. I would suggest therapy for all of you - you and your husband need to find a way to parent her. Yes, she's adopted, but that doesn't mean that you both sit back and watch her piss her life away because you are compensating for the fact that she's adopted. Does she do any school work at all, homework etc? If not, what are or were the consequences? It sounds like you are afraid of parenting her.

I'm not sure where you are in the country, OP, but there are various organisations that use sport to get difficult kids on the right tracks, such as this one

https://www.dfy.org.uk/?utm_source=copilot.com

Reading through this, and the blank bit of paper handed back at test time at school, it sounds like a huge case of deep rooted imposter syndrome or similar.

She lives a life of privilege afforded to her by adopted parents who are obviously intelligent and well educated. It sounds like she is struggling with academia a bit, even if it's just her head telling her she's struggling, and feels like there is some expectation for her to meet the standards she thinks you have for her.

Therefore she is therefore consciously choosing the easiest route out so that the expectations are low... I think some coaching/support around how she's feeling about school/future/motivations would be beneficial and may give her and you some clarity.

Honestly I would just let her get on with it. I left school at 16 and also moved out of home with no intention of doing anything other than working in a fish and chip shop and doing as little as possible.
Within 3 months I was bored brainless, the money was crap, the bosses terrible and I stunk of grease every day.

I eventually did loads of FE and ended up working my entire life in very rewarding jobs.

My parents never said a word.

For any other situation ibwpukd say a bit of tough love might even worked and let her fend for herself for abitbto get a reality dose. However your dd is adopted and im assuming knows this. Do you think its related somehow that's she's acting out of place, maybe there's other things that need processing like a sense of belonging plus just being at an age where everything is a bit much.
Maybe specialist help and then abit of tough love.

This makes me feel sad for her. From what you've said she doesn't have many friends, doesn't cost you much, isn't awful but doesn't do anything or have any aspirations.

This sounds like someone who has had so much early trauma/rejection that they just don't have any self-esteem whatsoever to even try and make any sort of mark anywhere.

Can't imagine where you'd begin, but I would hope it would fizzle out, and the best you can do is encourage her in some ways, while not supporting any batshit ideas, and telling her you love her and she'll have a home as long as she thinks about a plan that works for you all.

Nature vs Nurture. I find it fascinating. A friend had a baby adopted by a wealthy couple who were barristers. Wanted for nothing. Found my friend. Wanted to be in each others’ lives. The girl has grown into a completely unbalanced adult who has shunned the parents who brought her up in luxury.

I know about the adoption issues as children grow as we have adopted children in the family and our close friends group . I think different approach’s help , my friends had a very different approach to my sister , my sister was on your mindset all her life , never expected much , he didn’t do well is chill it’s ok it’s partly because he was adopted , adoption was alway the excuse . My friend on the other had always pushed her children ( both adopted ) to excel , if one diner what to do something giving up was never a option unless there was a alternative , as a result her 2 at 15 and 17 are balanced teens knowing adult life means a change despite one having a serious medical issue . My nephew on the other hand struggled with school , my sister still does everything for him , and I doubt he will leave home before he is 30 ! .

Why are you funding her sitting around?!!

She needs to go back to school or get a job.

Even if she does manage to get onto benefits - and she will find they don't actually hand them out unconditionally, whatever people on Mumsnet might want you to think - she's going to find out that living off the state in a shared flat in London is extremely unlike the lifestyle she is accustomed to at home.

And additionally that the sort of men who are willing and able to support a housewife are probably not going to be falling over themselves to marry an undereducated waster.

I think these sorts of things float around on TikTok/social media as my now working son went through a phase of voicing how easy it would be to live off UC. I put him straight and he is now on a gap year so hopefully have grown up a bit

There are many practical and moral reasons why her choices and "life plan" are poor ones, but I don't think she will believe you or listen to you if you explain them to her.

I have no expertise in MH or adoption trauma so it may be that I'm under-reacting, but in your position, if nothing changes in the next 2 years, I'd drive her to London and let her crack on.

When she finds how miserable life is living in a big city with next to no money, I think it's highly likely she will want to come back, and if you tell her this in advance she will avoid doing so in case you say, "I told you so."

If you are in a financial position to accept that she is likely to boomerang back home and want to start again with GCSEs and a new "life plan" then I think that's the most likely outcome.

I’m interested to know if your other DC are adopted too, and whether they’re biologically related to her?

Intelligence is largely hereditary, and I think we’ll look back on the societal expectation that an adopted child will automatically take on the traits of the adoptive family with bafflement.

I’m sorry for you OP, it must be very difficult.

Yes, this- I had a couple of wealthy boyfriends when I was younger and they wanted a "lady" who can be charming and interesting at dinners with clients, someone educated, accomplished and with very good manners, someone who always looks polished, never speaks out of turn, has no strong opinions, and stays looking 25 and slim forever whilst popping out babies like shelling peas. Think Kate Middleton. I couldn't be bothered with the effort of it and found it very boring. I'm more of a Meghan Markle I think.

She's attending college.

Does she need to experience something (in a more vocational sense) that she's good at?

Her college sounds a bit like a repeat of previous failings and however much she's pretending not to try, there's a fear of failure in there as well.

If she's sporty could she volunteer on the coaching side with a local team, kids group etc? Or the if money isn't an issue, any kind of residential outward bounds scheme you could send her on? Seeing a different perspective of the world might help her given tough love is more complicated.

Ultimately she needs a job. Different ways of learning things. But there has to be some requirement to need it and unfortunately I think you do need to be harder in stopping her available fund and helping her to find something she enjoys and is good at that requires money.

She has zero incentive to earn her own sitting in her bedroom so that needs to change.

2 years is a long time when you are 16. I can remember saying alot of stupid things when I was that age. I would be a bit worried about these so called friends though. They may have seen glimpses of the lifestyle your DD has and think they will benefit in some way. I think you must make it clear, however you need to do this, subtly or whatever, that you will not be bankrolling her if she choses this life style. You said she used to be interested in sport, I would really try encouraging her getting back into this, a club, something that would be fun, and yes therapy. Good luck

I'm just hopping onto this thread to say that working at McD's is not an easy job, and getting through the interview process is an ordeal in itself. Macdonalds is a good employer though. I am speaking from the experience of my DS who worked part time there during uni.

Wrt your DD, I agree with pp who have suggested posting this on the adoption boards. She was adopted aged 3 and her life prior to this will have impacted her significantly. You need specific advice from adoptive parents. Wishing you well.