To allow my DD to follow her ridiculous "life plan"

[14HoursToSaveTheEarth]

This is not really an AIBU. I'm asking for advice/views. Long post so sorry.

My DD (16) is a number of things including confident and articulate. This may sound harsh but she is also in many ways immature and gullible, and very, very lazy. She left secondary school without a single GCSE of any grade and to be honest I think it is safe to say that this will continue and she will leave all education without any qualifications. Importantly, she does not care. She lives a privileged life in a seven bedroom house where she wants for nothing, but her attitude is that work is for fools and she plans to live off the government until she gets married and they look after her. You have no idea how long we have spent trying to dispel this fantasy and educate her as to how life will be in the real world if she doesn't change her attitude but she thinks we made our life choices (like going to university, gaining multiple degrees and working long hours at good jobs to provide her with this life) and she will make hers.

So she now has a "friend" who she met online via other friends who has had a hard time in life. She is also 16 but she cannot live at home due to her family circumstances, so he has a flat paid for by the local authority (according to DD). This friend has it sounds serious mental health issues, is a self-harmer and has attempted suicide several times, and recently had a miscarriage. I do not think it was her first pregnancy. The friend lives in East London. We live in the countryside several hours from London.

DD and her friend have now hatched a master plan whereby when they turn 18 DD will move in with her friend in London and they will both live off of benefits and never have to work, or at most they will get a job at MacDonalds.They think that this is them beating the system and they laugh at people planning to go to university and get jobs.

I could write this off as a teenage fantasy, which it probably is, but I constantly see threads on MN about young women who are living the life she describes and it makes me despair that this plan may become a reality. I don't even know what to do if we cannot talk her out of it. Do we drive her to London and try to be "supportive" (though I would not give her money other than in an emergency) in order to still be part of her life when it all goes wrong, or do we say "fine, make your choices but stand on your own two feet then" and see her sink possibly out of our lives forever?

DD also has two younger siblings who idolise her and I really worry about the message this sends to them, if she messages them about her amazing life in London sticking a finger up at everything we are trying to get them to work towards.

For full disclosure, as I don't want to be accused of drip-feeding, my DD was adopted at age three.

I know this will probably all come to nothing but it horrifies me when I hear her planning for a future that I know will be so bleak when for so many years we had such high hopes for her future. She has tried vaping and tried alcohol at a party but she hated both, so does not drink or smoke, has never tried drugs and is a virgin. However, she is incredibly stubborn and I have seen her turn viciously on people, including teachers, who do not allow her to have her own way (though thankfully this is not often), and so I can see her following through on this ridiculous plan out of sheer willfulness.

Before anyone asks, DH and I are fully on the same page on this issue. We are both equally horrified at her so-called plans but at a loss as to how to curtail them when she listens to everything we say and then simply says that she has her own mind and when she is 18 we cannot stop her. And she is right.

Beside this ridiculous plan and a general laziness with respect to anything concerning study, she is actually a pretty good kid most days (the moments of stubbornness I mentioned above are momentous but rare), so I have no reason to do anything to punish her. She is allowed to have friends and crazy ideas.

So please MN, your views:

Am I being UNREASONABLE and should let her spread her wings and move in with an unstable friend and live a life that horrifies me, putting her safety at risk in the hope that she sees sense and comes home, or

am I being REASONABLE and should do everything to prevent her from moving in with her friend when she is 18, even if that drives a wedge between us, hoping that she eventually understands this is for her benefit?

or should we do something else entirely?

Ask her to do some research what sort of life she can have on benefits.

Do not provide any money apart from her basic needs. if she is in not full time education she needs to make a living.

Yes to coaching and therapy,

I imagine a lot has to do with her genes and birth family sadly. I had a friend who adopted 2 kids thinking just providing them with love was enough but has lots of issues especially with the oldest one who came from alcoholics, etc so you do inherent lots of things from your parents.

No just lazy

What was her schoolwork like before the exams?
Some people do find taking an actual exam overwhelming but are fine with school work in general.
I can't believe it took until her final days of school for someone realising something wasn't right when she handed in a blank exam paper. Was the work she did through her previous 12 years of school ok? Did she not write on any exam papers (most teens do at least about 20 different exam papers)?

Bit out the box but -Contact your local authority Virtual School - ask for signposting for support for PLAC ( previously looked after children) They may have mentors who can help get her back on track. In my experience she is relating more to her 'friend', seeing how and where she fits in, an identity thing. Her friends life will indeed be real but your daughter needs a seperate plan..good luck

My father was a consultant child psychologist. One of his oft said phrases was ' genes will out', meaning the genetic make up of a child is a hugely powerful pull on how they will turn out ,regardless of the huge oppotunuties their adoptive family have given them over many years. He spent his career working with children who had been traumatised by their birth families and either lived in care later on or had been put with adopters or in foster care. It is rare for a child who has lived in chaos until the age of three not to gravitate towards it when life starts to be more challenging. Therapy is definitely hugely important to help her to break away from the route she originally came from.

Is that not the one whose 15 year old wanted to move out?

Anyway, I agree. Ignore and say "that's nice dear".

This can’t be real. How did you allow her to get absolutely no GCSE’s?!

There was a similar thread a couple of days ago from an OP whose 15/16-yr old daughter wanted to move out and live on her own. The OP was worrying about how to stop her.

Rags to riches to rags. The poor generation with huge ambition to make a better life create money, the next generation enjoys the fruits of this with no need to graft. They spend it all and their children end up back in poverty.

A lot shifts between 16 and 18. I had a rough start in life and also left school without GCSEs. It took me a while to get my act together and go back to college to get a couple of GCSEs and then do an access course. I now have a PhD and I’m an academic. Things change and perspectives change.

I wanted to be an actress at 16, I was hellbent on that and nothing could stop me. I left home and moved into a high rise flat with a much older man. It was all really toxic but my mindset was very much fuck the world, the world owes me a living sort of thing. I didn’t grow up privileged like your DD though, I grew up impoverished in an abusive addicted household. But I still escaped, despite all odds. I had DC in my teens too fwiw so did it all when everyone had written me off.

Just wait and see. She’s very young and naive and will likely change her mind 500 times before 18.

One of my kids has a theory that lots of young people are looking for a struggle because their lives have been quite sheltered, even those not from wealthy families. I think I remember that feeling from the angsty teen years!

Have you checked out vocational quals in your area? Actually spoke to the college tutors? Our colleges will accommodate children who didn't pass GCSEs as long as they do resits alongside. The GCSE system is set up on a bell curve so a third have to fail. Our area gets a higher proportion of that third (more like 50-60%) so they can't write that many children off!
It's clear your daughter's course is not working and she could be doing something more productive that gives her some ambition and a sense of perspective. All it needs it one mentor/tutor that she admires and respects to turn it around.

One of my kids is just 18 and working in a job I wouldn't choose but he walks taller and is a different person in 8 weeks! That sense of perspective that working with a variety of people and hearing sensible conversations can be so helpful.

Is it not now a legal requirement to be in training or education until age 18? If she's refusing to do this then she doesn't get anything but the basics whilst she's living under your roof. No wifi. No choice over foods. No money for individual toiletries or makeup. She can choose to doss and waste her life when she's old enough to look after herself but until then she needs to get a grip and live in the real world.

How the fuck did we get from 8 year olds sweeping chimneys and 14 year olds choosing to go to war to this?! Not that I would wish for any of this to return but I think it's clear evidence that we are infantilising our children far too much and then we cry about it when they don't have the smarts to be a responsible member of society...

Its not that uncommon, but is usually amongst children from dysfunctional families or with ND. Its seen as the least effort to get independence as soon as possible, no more being told what to do in education or at home, without the maturity or long term understanding of what life in a council flat on low income is actually like.

Excellent advice.
We use this technique with a relative who doesn't live in the real world and thinks they are 21 not nearly 91, it works well.
Just agree with everything and make her start living her life like this now.
Good luck OP x

OP does she have learning difficulties?
I wonder whether her surface social skills and ability to speak nicely might be masking learning issues that means that actually yes, GCSEs were too hard for her and she should have been offered entry level or functional skills. It's possible that she has adopted a "I'm not really bothered anyway" attitude to cover that actually, she can't access.

I am an educational psychologist and I would be starting by asking for an EP assessment or funding one myself. This might help pinpoint DD's needs and also give her some information on why things felt hard for her that she may find validating (for example, identifying a learning difficulty or dyslexia). This may also enable her to look into different courses such as a supported internship.

She is only 16 - how she passed her GCSE's in June/July and is still 16 means she must be a very young 16 too. The fact she now has to make responsible decisions won't be lost on her though and she clearly isn't ready or have the skills to make them. You are meant to be giving her confidence and supporting her to look at her options thoroughly, not throwing the privileged upbringing you gave her in her face.

I agree with the people saying that you actually need specialized advice because she is adopted

However if this were my child I would be looking at getting them out of their head and normal environment. Getting them doing something like sail training or travel or volunteering, anything to shift them away from their peer group and their life experiences to date

On top of that, get some exposure to people living in the situation she thinks is going to be "easy". Maybe volunteering could be at a food bank, or a charity shop/collecting donations for people who can't afford a decent coat kind of thing?

If she sees the reality, she may become less enamoured.

Yeah, one of mine had sat all GCSEs before they even turned 16, while others were about to turn 17.

The thing is it all looks so easy for her from the comfort of a well furnished, warm and comfortable home.

I bet she's thinking that her flat with her friend will be the same. Not cold, lacking the basics and the worry over paying the bills.

McDonalds is often quoted as an easy to get job and they are not.

She sees you and the fruits of your hard work as easy because she's never had to work.

It's so hard but she's young, this may be her way of rebelling and it could turn around.

I agree with the mental health professional who said that she needs proper therapy from a clinical psychologist. Her early life will have given her a primal wound and I feel like this rebellion manifesting in the way that it is is coming from a place of deep sadness and trauma which needs unpicking. I know you don’t want to talk about her background but I wonder if subconsciously something about the set up these girls have makes her feel connected to her birth family in some way. It’s interesting what you said about child services saying that adopted kids often fall in with “the wrong crowd” (not saying these girls are in any way wrong but they are living a very different life to your daughter). Perhaps their early life trauma was similar. There’s something about being neglected and being drawn to other girls that have been neglected that is very sad. These are not feelings you are in any way responsible for and I know it must be hard to confront them. But confront them you most if you want to help her.

Educationally this sounds like a lot more than just laziness. Has she been tested for anything like Dyslexia, dyscalculia, cognitive testing (working memory, IQ etc) or a learning disability? Because capable but lazy teenagers tend to drop a grade or two, not get no GCSEs at all (my 16yo who did no revision for MH reasons got 7s instead of 8s for example). I just wonder if she has been failed with her education and has ended up feeling like it's not worth trying. If you think about it, if you don't believe yourself to be capable of work because you weren't capable in school then a backup plan that ensures you can have an income of some sort is actually quite sensible.

My daughter left college at 16- she never went back after Covid. Told her that if she wasn't going back then she had to get a job because tax credits and child benefit would stop. She got a job in a local chip shop. Never had any comeback from anyone with regards to her not being in education.

I suspect the friend wouldn’t be allowed to have someone living with them.