To allow my DD to follow her ridiculous "life plan"

[14HoursToSaveTheEarth]

This is not really an AIBU. I'm asking for advice/views. Long post so sorry.

My DD (16) is a number of things including confident and articulate. This may sound harsh but she is also in many ways immature and gullible, and very, very lazy. She left secondary school without a single GCSE of any grade and to be honest I think it is safe to say that this will continue and she will leave all education without any qualifications. Importantly, she does not care. She lives a privileged life in a seven bedroom house where she wants for nothing, but her attitude is that work is for fools and she plans to live off the government until she gets married and they look after her. You have no idea how long we have spent trying to dispel this fantasy and educate her as to how life will be in the real world if she doesn't change her attitude but she thinks we made our life choices (like going to university, gaining multiple degrees and working long hours at good jobs to provide her with this life) and she will make hers.

So she now has a "friend" who she met online via other friends who has had a hard time in life. She is also 16 but she cannot live at home due to her family circumstances, so he has a flat paid for by the local authority (according to DD). This friend has it sounds serious mental health issues, is a self-harmer and has attempted suicide several times, and recently had a miscarriage. I do not think it was her first pregnancy. The friend lives in East London. We live in the countryside several hours from London.

DD and her friend have now hatched a master plan whereby when they turn 18 DD will move in with her friend in London and they will both live off of benefits and never have to work, or at most they will get a job at MacDonalds.They think that this is them beating the system and they laugh at people planning to go to university and get jobs.

I could write this off as a teenage fantasy, which it probably is, but I constantly see threads on MN about young women who are living the life she describes and it makes me despair that this plan may become a reality. I don't even know what to do if we cannot talk her out of it. Do we drive her to London and try to be "supportive" (though I would not give her money other than in an emergency) in order to still be part of her life when it all goes wrong, or do we say "fine, make your choices but stand on your own two feet then" and see her sink possibly out of our lives forever?

DD also has two younger siblings who idolise her and I really worry about the message this sends to them, if she messages them about her amazing life in London sticking a finger up at everything we are trying to get them to work towards.

For full disclosure, as I don't want to be accused of drip-feeding, my DD was adopted at age three.

I know this will probably all come to nothing but it horrifies me when I hear her planning for a future that I know will be so bleak when for so many years we had such high hopes for her future. She has tried vaping and tried alcohol at a party but she hated both, so does not drink or smoke, has never tried drugs and is a virgin. However, she is incredibly stubborn and I have seen her turn viciously on people, including teachers, who do not allow her to have her own way (though thankfully this is not often), and so I can see her following through on this ridiculous plan out of sheer willfulness.

Before anyone asks, DH and I are fully on the same page on this issue. We are both equally horrified at her so-called plans but at a loss as to how to curtail them when she listens to everything we say and then simply says that she has her own mind and when she is 18 we cannot stop her. And she is right.

Beside this ridiculous plan and a general laziness with respect to anything concerning study, she is actually a pretty good kid most days (the moments of stubbornness I mentioned above are momentous but rare), so I have no reason to do anything to punish her. She is allowed to have friends and crazy ideas.

So please MN, your views:

Am I being UNREASONABLE and should let her spread her wings and move in with an unstable friend and live a life that horrifies me, putting her safety at risk in the hope that she sees sense and comes home, or

am I being REASONABLE and should do everything to prevent her from moving in with her friend when she is 18, even if that drives a wedge between us, hoping that she eventually understands this is for her benefit?

or should we do something else entirely?

It sounds as if she is going to finish college and still not have any gcses. So I would be looking at finding another way of doing them- home school with a tutor and she does something else all day.

She can't see a future for herself without them, which you - meaning well, and I do the same- have drummed into her. So she is planning a future based on that.

Perhaps finding a mentor or coach to chat about other options - and there are other options, such as learning dog grooming, or gardening, or helping at sport clubs, or car boot sales.

She could try a gap year in the army. She likes sport but not with pressure to have a reason to enjoy it!

I don't know about adoption issues, but I would get a book called what colour os my parachute for teens and work through it with you or find a sensible young mentor. My ds decided he would not try at school, and and having a tutor undergraduate lad who was deeply cool and loved maths etc really helped. Found him on a tutor site.

A job would give her self worth, or volunteering doing whatever she fancies. Guide, don't do it for her. I wouldn't give her pocket money BTW. She has no incentive and if she is stubborn she will happily spoil things for herself despite hating it! Avoid saying I told you so, but you can ask why she thinks there are only 2 forks in the road. You don't know everything! Can't she use the Internet for research?:)

And I wouldn't be driving her to London, as you mentioned in your opening post. Just look amazed at the suggestion:)

You say she has no life experience, concept of money. This is what I’d work on here, let her get a part time job and make her pay some rent so she sees how far min wage goes, show her that she will earn the same or even less on benefits, show her the price of rent in London. Stop buying luxuries and just give her essentials. Don’t do this is a strict way, just a ‘ok we feel you’re independent enough now’ sort of way.

She is idolising her friends aspiring to live on benefits, she needs to be exposed to the hardships these girls may have faced, poverty, domestic violence, neglect. Could you show her some documentaries on such hardships? Go visit some run down areas. Treat her ideas as her having curioisity about the world rather than being defiant, if she says ‘oh it must be great to live on benefits’ start a discussion in an explorative, non judgmental way about the reasons people might need benefits and how they might have to live. Has she ever watched Rich House Poor House or Teen Mom (there might be more modern shows nowadays?)

As for her friends… They sound like very vulnerable and rather entitled young girls and I’d worry they could end up taking advantage of your daughter since they must know she comes from money. I grew up in a disadvantaged area and had plenty of ‘friends’ like this with no ambition, they were manipulative and very prone to anti social behaviour like drug taking, shop lifting, sleeping around and one of them got into prostitution (I suspect she was groomed now in hindsight) I would cut contact with these girls OP. Be strict on that one and work on widening your daughter’s and possibly your own word view.

Oh and to add to my above post, I work in the mental health sector and I strongly reccomend a qualified family therapist, someone who is at a doctorate level like a psychologist with systemic therapy training. Ensure they have experience with adoption.

I'd go with this. When I was 18, my boyfriend at the time was determined we were going to get a council flat and move in together (worth noting I was wavering anyway, about him, but if my parents had said no I'd have been very motivated to do it anyway). My parents showed me the cost of things and showed me how to do a budget, and I was very put off the idea from seeing how little we'd have left over for "fun". And I had a job around uni, so it wasn't "just benefits".

Talk her through it. See how that goes.

My ds has a fear of failure and is very stubborn. Like me. Don't want to derail the thread but you sound knowledgeable! Could I pm you? Or ask for a link to help for him?

Step185 I'm sorry life has not been easy. You sound strong and resilient and I hope you can find some joy in life.

She sounds not unlike my granddaughter who’s just been diagnosed with ADHD…the inattentive element, which made it very difficult to focus in lessons

This with bells on.

If she isn’t actually studying she absolutely needs to get a job. Giving her pocket money in this kind of situation will only make things worse.

I do not believe that you can talk her out of this. All you can do is trying to show her the life she’ll live. Which means that she absolutely needs to get a job and budget (for clothes, shopping, new phone or laptop etc…) with limited funds.

edit: I do however also agree with those saying that you need specialised advice.

Hm. I wouldn't have let it get this far. My advice to you now would be to take a strong stance and reining it in.

I would've already withheld privileges and insisted that she passed GCSE maths already. I would've done that already. I would've never let it get this far.

with DS2 DH and I recently had to take away his phone and stop him from going to Football practice because of bad grades at school and just a total lack of respect and rudeness. he didn't like it at all but there's only so much tolerance I have.

we all have to do basics or else you don't get privileges. Also it sounds a bit like you want to be her best friend rather than her parent, although I'm assuming that the adoption plays heavily here. it just sounds like weak parenting and I just think you need to take a strong stance now. and do what's good for her - that's what a parent really has to do - to fulfill the parental Duty.

OP, I think the serious comment your DD made to you about ….you don’t know how hard it is for me because you aren’t me….is very telling.

I think she is grateful and happy and conscious somewhere deep down, but in a detached sort of way, of the lovely life you have provided for her -but to her, that’s not the real her. To her, the real her is the first three years where trauma existed in place of normal attachment.
That’s the real her that she possibly feels can not be erased. It exists and she knows she has to face it and play it out at some stage.

Please research and invest in professional psychotherapy help for teen adopted children. It seems possible that your DD is massively masking with the result that she (mistakenly ) feels/knows for sure that all she should actually be entitled to aspire to, is life on benefits. She has found a friend whose thought process matches that true feeling of who she thinks she really is and is clinging to that for a lifeline. It continues to prevent her from accessing education.
It will take some unravelling to undo that embedded concept in her mind if that’s the case.

Keep loving and supporting her as you do and ensure she knows that whatever path she chooses for herself, you will always love her and be there for her whenever she needs it, even under any circumstances.

You sound like a lovely mum. Parenting teens is so hard and when your daughter is adopted that obviously brings another level of complexity.

I always forget how many people on mumsnet hate their own children, and assume other parents hate their children.

She is a traumatised child who will have spent her whole life since being removed from her birth parents desperately working incredibly hard to be worth love, removing her belongings and forcing her into work when she isn’t developmentally ready would be an absolute disaster. Most parents want whats best for their children, rather than trying to actively sobatage their future.

I agree, tough love especially for those from privilege. She should have a part time job by this age.

This is quite shocking… she thinks that no qualifications and no security will be an easy life…??? The reality is the exact opposite!!!
Does she know in the UK there aren’t just benefits or free houses for everyone who has no income.. and even if you did get allocated something, it won’t be indefinite.
Stop giving her any money; get her a part time job; volunteer in a soup kitchen with her and show her what life looks like for people who have no security.

Also.. where on earth has this idea that a man will just pay for her come from? I don’t know what you can do to quash that. There’s two years between 16 and 18 so let’s hope there’s change…

I cannot overstate just how important the fact that she was adopted at three is. You sound as if you’re well resources. Contact Beacon House for specialist services.

Hi OP, I work in this sector with young people. Technically she should be in education or an apprenticeship but it’s not actually an enforced law. As long as she is working the local authority will be happy. So if she really would be happier leaving college now and getting a job in Boots or Nando’s etc then she can do so. It could be the making of her! Also the local authority Virtual School and Children’s Services now have to provide support to children who were previously looked after (in care) so worth contacting them to see what support is available to you/DD now. See if you have a local Youth Connections type service, you may be able to take DD into see them for a chat about future plans. Her college will also have a Careers team who you could make an appointment with.

I assume she is currently resitting her maths and English at college? Do you know how that is going? FYI once you turn 19 (aka an adult) most colleges offer night courses in maths and English GCSE or functional skills so she can always catch up at any point in that respect.

As others have said, she won’t get many benefits as she is fit and healthy. She would not be able/allowed to move in with her friend as this would likely reduce/stop the friend’s benefits. And yes, even McDonald’s can pick and choose who they hire these days and will go with more qualified candidates.

She's in for a hell of a shock when she gets her first job. People who've never done it always think working in a shop or a fast food place is easy but it's bloody exhausting.

She has had parents who enjoy over indulging her, many successful people have children who are bums, they didn’t have the same need or drive, she is lazy and entitled in the back of your hard work.

People survive on benefits 🤷‍♀️ especially if she has a property to live in. I think people are catastrophising life on benefits, which is not equivalent to starvation

Is your DD intellectually capable of passing any GCSEs if she made a decision to apply herself? I'm wondering if she has basically opted out of education entirely because she really struggles to learn any academic subjects and by refusing to engage, she is spared the humiliation of trying and failing.

She currently doesn't need much money as all her basic needs (shelter, heating, food, clothing, phone) are being met by you. However, she will have a rude awakening if she leaves home and tries to supports herself entirely on benefits as a young single person with no disabilities or dependent children will receive a very small amount of money to live on.

She sounds bored and looking for escape.

As said not even McDonalds will take her. Tell her this..

I would try to get her back into sport / other hobby and get her some volunteer work experience She may find meaning in helping others?

I would rein in the pocket money and money for clothes etc and reward her for chores done instead.

Sounds like what my brother was like at that age. Very against the system and I won’t work because it’s for corporate losers. This lasted unt he was 25 when he finally got sick of living with mum and dad and never having any money to do anything. So not give her money. She needs consequences to not working.

my brother is now a primary school teacher after studying part time but this was back when you could just be on benefits for years with less hassle.

I agree with the person who posted sounding an alarm bell about her MH and wellbeing.

Has she ever been assessed for ND or learning disabilities? To hand in blank pages in an exam seems like one of a few possible things - severe trauma response, adhd, an actual processing disorder - etc. I'm not an expert - (I volunteer with autistic children and one of my own is autistic so I am jusst aware of various types of cognitive processing issues/disorders)

It may be that her pre adoption years severely impacted her brain development - I would be seeking urgent professional input

I also agree with the poster who made the interesting comparison to new age travelling etc - at 16 I was a raver and lived in a squat etc in my early 20s HOWEVER - because of my underlying abilities I did not want to go nowhere and do nothing with my life and that energy and ambition underneath my ditizness etc pulled me through.

I think you need to seek a full psychiatric consultant - or clinical psychologist consultancy and sessions where they can look at this. as the woman said - not a counsellor. Someone qualified in child and adolescence psychiatric MH