To allow my DD to follow her ridiculous "life plan"

[14HoursToSaveTheEarth]

This is not really an AIBU. I'm asking for advice/views. Long post so sorry.

My DD (16) is a number of things including confident and articulate. This may sound harsh but she is also in many ways immature and gullible, and very, very lazy. She left secondary school without a single GCSE of any grade and to be honest I think it is safe to say that this will continue and she will leave all education without any qualifications. Importantly, she does not care. She lives a privileged life in a seven bedroom house where she wants for nothing, but her attitude is that work is for fools and she plans to live off the government until she gets married and they look after her. You have no idea how long we have spent trying to dispel this fantasy and educate her as to how life will be in the real world if she doesn't change her attitude but she thinks we made our life choices (like going to university, gaining multiple degrees and working long hours at good jobs to provide her with this life) and she will make hers.

So she now has a "friend" who she met online via other friends who has had a hard time in life. She is also 16 but she cannot live at home due to her family circumstances, so he has a flat paid for by the local authority (according to DD). This friend has it sounds serious mental health issues, is a self-harmer and has attempted suicide several times, and recently had a miscarriage. I do not think it was her first pregnancy. The friend lives in East London. We live in the countryside several hours from London.

DD and her friend have now hatched a master plan whereby when they turn 18 DD will move in with her friend in London and they will both live off of benefits and never have to work, or at most they will get a job at MacDonalds.They think that this is them beating the system and they laugh at people planning to go to university and get jobs.

I could write this off as a teenage fantasy, which it probably is, but I constantly see threads on MN about young women who are living the life she describes and it makes me despair that this plan may become a reality. I don't even know what to do if we cannot talk her out of it. Do we drive her to London and try to be "supportive" (though I would not give her money other than in an emergency) in order to still be part of her life when it all goes wrong, or do we say "fine, make your choices but stand on your own two feet then" and see her sink possibly out of our lives forever?

DD also has two younger siblings who idolise her and I really worry about the message this sends to them, if she messages them about her amazing life in London sticking a finger up at everything we are trying to get them to work towards.

For full disclosure, as I don't want to be accused of drip-feeding, my DD was adopted at age three.

I know this will probably all come to nothing but it horrifies me when I hear her planning for a future that I know will be so bleak when for so many years we had such high hopes for her future. She has tried vaping and tried alcohol at a party but she hated both, so does not drink or smoke, has never tried drugs and is a virgin. However, she is incredibly stubborn and I have seen her turn viciously on people, including teachers, who do not allow her to have her own way (though thankfully this is not often), and so I can see her following through on this ridiculous plan out of sheer willfulness.

Before anyone asks, DH and I are fully on the same page on this issue. We are both equally horrified at her so-called plans but at a loss as to how to curtail them when she listens to everything we say and then simply says that she has her own mind and when she is 18 we cannot stop her. And she is right.

Beside this ridiculous plan and a general laziness with respect to anything concerning study, she is actually a pretty good kid most days (the moments of stubbornness I mentioned above are momentous but rare), so I have no reason to do anything to punish her. She is allowed to have friends and crazy ideas.

So please MN, your views:

Am I being UNREASONABLE and should let her spread her wings and move in with an unstable friend and live a life that horrifies me, putting her safety at risk in the hope that she sees sense and comes home, or

am I being REASONABLE and should do everything to prevent her from moving in with her friend when she is 18, even if that drives a wedge between us, hoping that she eventually understands this is for her benefit?

or should we do something else entirely?

Because at some point, the money is going to run out after the OP has done the same for her other children. Or OP and her DH will die of old age and any inheritance left after 3 flats and 3 cars is not going to last all three children the rest of their lives. And then what does her DD do? She’ll be middle aged, no qualifications, no employment history and no ability or desire to support herself. How does she function? Who puts food in her cupboard? Who keeps the lights on?

You’re supposed to give your child the skills to go out and make their own way in this world. And if you’ve got a few quid and can make it easier for them, then great, good for you. But if you’ve enabled them to do nothing but exist and take, then you’ve utterly failed as a parent.

The money you need to spend is on specialist counselling for her. I am more a believer of nature over nurture. plus her brain development could be hugely affected depending on what she witnessed. In a way as so young she won’t have clear memories so may be even harder for her to process.

It’s all a bit Pulp Common People isn’t it for your DD.

Know a few adopted people, DS went to school with 2 and they were very difficult kids. My friend at school was adopted as was her sister. This was the 1960’s though and more likely just some poor teen had a child out of wedlock and were forced to give them up.

I think where the alternative is mixing with the wrong crowd, so to speak, it is certainly preferable to help your child out financially. But I know this is not popular on MN.

Personally, I could not let my child live in a friend’s council flat, on a pittance, while I had ample space in my house and cash in my bank account to give them a more comfortable life. I would be disappointed that they hadn’t inherited my ambition, of course, but I could not watch them suffer.

Similar to PP, where I work it is common among my colleagues who are parents to fund children well into adulthood - apartments, cars, hobby Masters/qualifications, family holidays etc. None of them are billionaires/mega rich, they just don’t hoard money for the sake of it.

Has she been assessed for any learning differences? If not, this would be worthwhile, if she will engage.

Could you provide her with some financial education? I don't know how much money people on benefits receive but perhaps find out, write out typical costs to live in a few different situations 1 bed flat, 2 bed flat 3 bed house for example and an idea of bills for power internet food water council tax, subscriptions etc maybe add in cost for a child two children a d show her what the actual lifestyle would be if she claimed benefits, earn minimum wage, had an average job, had a very good job, and an exceptional job and show her the reality of life.

She may then see for herself what she may miss out on by having such low aspirations.

Has she been to this friends home in London?

How much roughly do you spend on her a week? Food, clothes, phone, taxi service, etc?

instead of spending money on her, could you give her the cash and the responsibility of buying her own food, paying for her phone and see if she can handle the money- don’t forget council tax will need to come out of that £10 per week, and UC wouldn’t cover her entire rent, so £25 a week would need to be taken back for that

UC is £73 a week so with rent top up and council tax taken out that leaves her £37 week for phone, food etc

perhaps try it for a couple of months

I don’t know what her circumstances were when she came to you but I have a friend who adopted a boy and as he hit his teenage years he gravitated towards the life his poor background provided . Feckless drug taking parents who never worked a stroke in their lives . His adoptive parents provided a stable loving home but he turned his back on everything they instilled in him about strong values / morality / working hard etc .
I wonder whether it’s nature that they ‘ go back ‘ genetically to mirror the birth parents .

Housing allowence is set by local authorities and varies in different areas, even within one council

so my area the allowance for an under 25 would be around £80 per week - as they are expected to house share or live at home.

She sounds the absolute twin of MY adopted 16 year old dd, OP. To the extent that I am tearful just reading this thread. I feel at the end of my tether with it, and so judged.

Sounds like she needs a mentor or something that she enjoys like sport, theatre, arts, music

https://www.gov.uk/jobseekers-allowance

This was me at 16. Trust me - it won’t last. Hormones everywhere. Thinking we know everything at that age. Her work ethic is slightly concerning - maybe she has had it too easy? I did always work.
I agree she probably needs therapy. And lots and lots of love - including tough love when needed.
I turned out ok - although may have given my parents a few grey hairs and wrinkles. Good luck - you have 3 to see through the teenage years

My DH has friends who grew up in quite privileged circumstances and now all live off benefits and pride themselves that they have friends who have had hard lives. It’s like life has been too cushy and they longed for some rawness. I grew up in a very underprivileged house and there’s no way I wanted that for my future or family. I think there’s nothing more pathetic quite frankly that someone who has that opportunity and pisses it away because they think it’s cooler to live off benefits. I would also be making my opinion quite clear. Stop her payments, kick her out and let her live it without a safety net. She will soon shift her opinion.

Trauma, under the age of 5 permanently changes the brain.

If this young lady was adopted at three, you have no idea what impact that had on her neurologically, and you have no idea about her biological disposition to being neurodiverse.

Handing in that blank piece of paper on her test, saying it was too hard was your cue to start exploring this. That's not defiance, it's overwhelm dressed up as such. Same as her life plan! She wants control in a world that is simply to much for her at the moment. Quite rightly so at 16 if she has just gone through school with unrecognized nuerodiversity. She isn't lazy either, she sounds inattentive. That's very different! You might find, that support her with a passion whatever that is, however wacky that is and it might be you get her back on track. Move out of your own comfort zone, and what you all think she should be doing, and you will then see some engagement.

You could of been writing about me when I was 16, and I'm successful now but only after I lost 10 years. A life with undiagnosed ADHD is a hard one. You are so capable, yet so stuck at the same time. Start understanding that she can't help her mind, she is looking for control ,dopamine, and like minds, and she needs you to help her find it in a safe way or she is gone at 18.

You seem to have only briefly mentioned this key piece of her story: For full disclosure, as I don't want to be accused of drip-feeding, my DD was adopted at age three.

What support is she currently receiving for the emotional aspects of this?

Great idea to have a practise run! I'd even build on this. Put together a few scenarios (you'll need to do some research first), e.g her plan; completing A levels with reasonable grades and getting a slightly better paid job; completing an apprenticeship in a field she might be interested in; going to university to study something she might be interested in. Help her research job opportunities, salary from starting out and how it progresses, cost options for flat share/own flat/own house, cost of living, transport costs etc. Then let her live each of those scenarios for a couple of months so she gets to see how hard it will be to live according to her plan, and also how much better life could be if she were willing to apply herself.

Your DD sounds like my DS who is also 16 and came to us from foster care when he was 4. So much life long trauma can be had by our DC's age when they became ours. My son also has no motivation or interest in school whatsoever, he never has. We've moved him to an independent school where he has more supports but it still doesn't make him more interested in the school work. We also have had numerous converstations about various job options (or lack there of) for when he leaves school, given his low marks and effort. My son is effectively about 3 years behind his peers in all areas, so we're waiting until he's about 21 to see if his maturity level will match a 17-18 year old. In the meantime, we're continuing with his psychologist, psychiatrist (medication) and other therapies to support him. One thing we're trying now, is a mentor (young male, 21 who can relate to my son) who is encrouaging him to have goals and be part of life. Feel free to DM me if it's possible on here! Wishing you all the best.

Obviously don’t indulge this stupid idea. She needs therapy.

She also needs you to stop spoiling her. Remove her laptop and iPhone, make her get a job shelf stacking or in a cafe and stop giving her money. She’ll soon learn the hard way that nice stuff has to be worked for.

Do not let her go off and live with this friend. They’re both young and incredibly vulnerable.

You keep saying she has no ambition. I don't think this is necessarily true. What im hearing from your posts is that she has a massive fear of failure. Why try in the exam and possibly fail when she could just not try at all and be in control of that failure. Same with the sport, she started getting good, in came the fear of failure so she stopped so she had that control. There were some other examples I picked out too from your posts but can't remember now

No doubt this is all tied up in her early development and trauma too. Has she ever had any proper therapy (not just counselling)?

Benefits for single, childless people are a pittance. They become more generous only when children are on the scene.

Presume she doesn’t know this yet.

She was adopted at three, she's already very experienced in the harsh realities of life.

Apart from the academic failure, I was very like this at her age. I read Down and Out in Paris and London and had a romanticised view of poverty.

I did live this life for a couple of years and mixed with some extremely unsavoury characters. I then ran back to mummy and daddy relatively unscathed and with a lot of experience.

it did tank my academic career (I was ostensibly at a very elite university - dropped out in order to fully pursue my degeneration) but it sounds like your daughter doesn’t have that to lose.

the absolutely vital thing was my parents remaining at arms length but always always available if I needed them emotionally.

We have an adopted family member, adopted younger than your daughter, who as a teen and young adult strongly gravitates towards people similar to their birth family and has ended up in situations similar to the one they were removed from. I actually think its disgraceful that social workers have just left you to it. I agree with others that you should invest in therapy for her. Our family member does show sparks of potentially having a brighter future at times, there's a mix of nature, nurture and childhood trauma all at play.

Let her go. Don't give her any money. Don't do anything that would make this life she's chosen for herself one whit easier. I predict she'll last six months before she wises up.

This is incredibly harsh towards such a young person who has adoption in her story.

Adoptee and adoptive mom here.

I would place money on her having adhd. She’s not lazy her brain shuts down. She feels incredibly stupid and doesn’t think she can do anything any ways so why bother?

Trauma and adhd have been heavily linked. We know developmental trauma literally changes the brain.

Are your other children biological children? If so that’s a whole other painful layer. Also important to remember that if you took an mri of your kids brains, your adopted daughters will look quite different.

Divelopmental trauma in its crudest terms is brain damage. This doesn’t mean we’re lost causes, it just means we need to be parented differently.