In laws being so insensitive after the death of my newborn nephew

[McFool]

NC’d for this

My newborn nephew died at a few hours old on Christmas Day. He was my sister’s first child and it was completely unexpected. I’m very close to my sister and this has been absolutely devastating, and a really difficult few weeks. My focus right now is on supporting her and trying to juggle that with work, looking after kids etc. I’ve been making sure they get fed, liaising with the professionals, talking to family for them, looking for funeral care etc to make life a bit less shit for them. it’s been tough and basically everything that is not about my sister and her DH has been completely sidelined.

On Boxing Day DH told my ILs what happened and I got messages but along the lines of “Your poor sister! Hope everyone is OK”. I know some people are really shit when it comes to grief so I just replied thanking them and saying no everyone isn’t ok we are heartbroken but I appreciate the message.

This week they have sent more messages, with a fundraiser for a baby loss charity about running 2k a day in January and “Maybe you and your sister could do this, try and raise some money”. I replied to say my sister can’t even get out of bed let alone go for a run! No reply, just a heart reaction. They are now pestering me and DH to choose some dates for a Center Parcs holiday we normally go on with them at Easter.

AIBU this goes beyond not understanding grief, and it’s utterly insensitive. These are adults, you don’t have to experience loss to know the encrusting pain it must cause someone. I’ve told DH I’m not going to Center Parcs as right now I’m feeling pretty unforgiving. I honestly feel like I’d be happy never seeing them again.

Or do I need to get out my grief fog? We lost our dad a few Christmases ago and I know looking back I didn’t behave reasonably around that time!

Agreed. What a post to write to someone who just lost her one day old baby nephew on Christmas Day.

No wonder they think the MIL is kind if this is their awful thought process.

He was full term, and there had been no complications or warning signs.

Oh sorry spotted your edit, no worries! And thank you for the link.

Thanks very much.

It is crazy IMO to think your sister especially would want to run 2k a day so soon after this loss.

Do what you need to do to protect yourself.

I had to step back from some people. I think a lot of people have no idea what to say.

I recall a friend asking me if I'd recovered from losing my mum...as if I was sick. I was so angry with her.

I'll never get over it. You just learn to live with your grief, but it's always there.

I am sorry for your sisters loss , and what a cruel loss it is.

If I may offer some kindly meant advice…. You mention that other people are ‘shit at handling death’, I think it would help you to understand that other people handling death differently to you does not mean that they deal with death in the wrong way - people are different and they deal with death in different ways. As seen in the many varied comments from other posters who have dealt with the loss of their child. We all have different ways of expressing ourselves.

“I sat with my Anger for a while until she told me her real name was Grief” -

Right now you are in the midst of supporting your sister, rightly so, this is the worst thing that can happen to a mother, but you also need to allow yourself the space and time to feel and process your own emotions, this isn’t easy as you take the backseat to be the support for your sister , but do lean on your support - your DH and his side of your family.

Ask DH to call them and explain you are struggling at the moment , and you just need some space /or practical help with sorting kids etc.

Take care of yourself OP.

See I would (and did) find this far, far worse then people clumsily saying / doing the wrong thing.

Me too. I'd rather know people were thinking of me, even if they somehow thought I might want to do a race.

This is why I extend anyone a lot of grace in these situations. None of us know the 'right' thing to say because the right thing is different for everybody. Unless there's a reason to think someone is so cruel that they want to deliberately upset you, always assume good intentions.

@McFool thanks for clarifying about the funeral arrangements - I agree if asked it is an amazing thing to do.

Look, good people say stupid stuff sometimes. When my sister was in the midst of her trauma (she lost 9 babies at different stages of pregnancy), I remember DH's brother and SIL sitting on my sofa making off colour jokes about some friends of theirs who were having fertility troubles. I remember wanting to hit them, genuinely. But they weren't trying to be hurtful. I quietly think back on that moment sometimes, but, I also acknowledge they love my kids, are generally kind people, and would help us in a heartbeat if our house burnt down! We're better with them in our lives than not, you know?

Same. A week after my dad died I met a friend for coffee who asked me if I'd been up to any fun things during the week. At the time I was livid, thinking "of course I bloody haven't. What kind of a question even is that FFS".

A couple of months later I realised that friend had been desperately trying to give me an alternative to talk about than the depth of my loss. It was clumsy but her intentions were good. And we did also talk about dad during that meet up too. I think I'd have found her unforgivably cold if she'd said nothing like the OPs boss has. But that's what makes us all different.

Yes that’s my feeling too. My mother died recently and I don’t mind people asking me about her or her death. It’s a huge thing, a family member dying, and it helps me that this huge thing in my life is acknowledged. (We won’t go into me telling a random shop assistant - a particularly low point but she was very lovely poor woman!)

@McFool it looks as though your deep grief is working its way through anger. Understandable, but just be careful - try not to get stuck in a place you can’t get back from.

Whatever they do they will be wrong, if they do nothing that will be wrong too. I'd not hold it against them and ask DH to ask them to give you some space while you support your Dsis.

I think a lot of people have no idea what to say.

I trunk that’s the nub of it, really. It’s a combination of factors: I don’t think British people “do” death very well in general and feel embarrassed when broaching the subject. There can be a huge difference between the generations (I’ve often found younger people to be more vocal and open about grief, whereas older people are often more “stiff upper lip” and “take your mind off it” types). So I think you do have to take a step back and judge what people’s underlying intentions were. Sure - your MIL was incredibly clumsy with her running challenge. And anyone who thought about that for 5 minutes would realise it! But I suspect she had been thinking about you and your sister, saw that, made the connection and thought it was something positive to say.

I also think a bit of directness is helpful here. As I said upthread - tell them or get your DH to tell them that what they said missed the mark. If they’re decent people, they’ll apiologise and take that on board (and yes, maybe err on the side of saying less or nothing). But far better to do that than just cut them off without explanation.

I didn't think they have done anything wrong. They are trying to be supportive and probably think a holiday will be good for you , their lives haven't been affected so they do need to plan and book their holiday

Totally agree. Some people don't have much emotional intelligence. Obviously clutching at straws and trying to 'solve' your grief.

Lots of people struggle with what to say to someone who is grieving, but suggesting you both run 2k every day in January is pretty bloody clueless.

So very sorry for this heartbreaking loss.

what's clueless?

that's how some people cope. Running or whatever.

There's not ONE right answer to this - some people want to be left alone, but staying away and abandoning others is cruel. Sending messages can always be the wrong thing, too deep, too brief

If you think you would always have it right in front of a grieving parent, you are completely mistaken, and just believing it shows it

It is. And it's been mentioned upthread, in response to the point that 'some people respond to death differently, and that's okay'.

Well, yes. I might deal with a bereavement completely differently from my friend. But it doesn't take too much emotional intelligence to take your cues from the bereaved. It isn't difficult. All you need to do is listen.

Ie. rather than sending fundraiser running links to two bereaved sisters, a message saying I am so sorry - what can I do to help support you? If they need space, give them that. If they want your time, give them that. Mirror their language - if euphemisms like 'passed away' are not used by them, don't use them yourself. It's about them first and foremost, not what happens to make you most comfortable. And if you get it wrong, say so - apologise, and ask what you can do. What you don't do is try to tell them the 'right' way to grieve.

Sometimes wellmeaning people don't know what to say. And that needn't be a relationship dealbreaker. But OP is hurt, and MN is, after all, a parenting support site. Her bereaved sister is that parent, and she loves her and loved her nephew.

This thread at the very least should be a place to sit with that feeling, as opposed to having it invalidated.

You giving your version of what works for YOU doesn't mean the in-laws were wrong about the OP's sister's loss.

It isn't difficult. All you need to do is listen.
so you want to impose yourself on someone to check how they deal with it, instead of sending a message first just to let them know you think about them? What a very strange way to act with people dealing with a loss.

No one is invalidating her feelings.

I made a comment about taking cues from the bereaved as to what makes them, personally comfortable as opposed to myself. You responded by inadvertently agreeing with me. It's about works for the grieving person - not about those attempting to condole with them on their bereavement.

You've responded with the claim that I wrote the opposite to what I actually did, and then went on to agree with precisely that point. It's rather a bizarre exercise in logic, especially as it's easily dispelled above, in black-and-white, in the text I actually wrote. You yourself highlighted my point that's what needed is to listen.

You seem confused. Either you've mistakenly responded to the wrong post or I'm going to interpret that as a wilful misunderstanding.

Running or whatever

Bloody hell, when will people buy a clue that you don’t tell 10 days post-partum women to run 2k a day 10 days after birth. And especially when the poor woman lost the baby the day it was born.

How can you not see that’s wrong?

The messages re baby loss (is everyone okay and charity) could be excused as they just don’t know what to say or how to help.

However, the CP texts are unacceptable at this time, and highlights their lack of empathy towards others, which then shows the baby loss texts in a different light too - so no longer excused.

It's no point discussing with you, your way is the only way obviously.

It's wrong with you, it's not wrong for everybody. It can even be very right for some women - and I am talking about real life examples, not some made up stories to illustrate a narrative.

It's bizarre to be so narrow-minded that you want to find wrong in what other people have actually DONE. Not talked about, not thought about, but real life.

I am not trying to convince you, you are not important enough, but I stand by my point that you cannot say "it's wrong" as a universal statement and that people deal, and HAVE DEALT with grief differently.

What one person want when they are grieving will offend someone else, that's all.

See I think the opposite - the CP texts are fine, the other two were clumsy and the charity run ones is the least excusable. Which shows why there isn't one right or wrong way to proceed and/or universal rules that the in-laws should have understood.

You are being deliberately obtuse. No one has said that women don’t decide to fundraise in this way.

But how many of those real life examples were of women who made that decision themselves? And how many were made because some random told them ‘maybe try and raise some money’ by running 10 days after you’ve given birth to a child who died?

Please stop policing others threads

the poster in question is repeatedly telling people their opinion isn’t right. I would assume her bereavements are far enough away for her to do this and take part as she is

I respect that’s her responsibility - you don’t need to swoop in like a rescuer

again stop policing others posts!

the OP has confirmed she is feeling as I am describing - along with her I’m aghast people think it’s ok - she needs that validating

and people saying anger is a stage of grief - those are originally developed for people with terminal illness - see Kubler Ross - also the steps aren’t linear - the anger is in relation to death not necessarily the anger she feels at her ILS - that is normal anger for insensitivity - she isn’t unhinged!!!

I’m not sure I agree with the “Theres no wrong way to talk to a grieving person”. Sorry but there is. You wouldn’t accept that if for example someone said “Just get over it”.

After all many people cope with accepting trauma and moving on quickly.

But anyone with a smidgen of emotional intelligence would know what is generally insensitive and what isn’t, and would know others cope differently so best to “go safe” and just express sorrow

Oh and Center Parcs has been booked without us, which is fine, DH messaged them to say our focus isn’t on holidays right now. We can always book our own lodge if we decide to go. But Easter will come around so quickly and I really don’t think I want to, for a few reasons.